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General railway discussions
- Thread starter Urban Sky
- Start date
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I mean a platform level with the floor of the train.
I was thinking of property acquisition costs. The wye would sterilise 4.6 hectares of land, whereas a station would probably only require buying an ordinary-sized lot.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Why would buying the land cost the same as a new station? How do you know that the railway doesn't own that land now?
For a 20 or 30 year lease they might build the wye for free.
The more difficult part it the integration of the signals with VIA dispatch, unless you have the ETR do the dispatching for you. But you still need to integrate the CTC signals with VIA.
That might require some new signals and cabling as well as upgrades to the backend systems.
I don't know how ETR does their signalling currently, but you would need to integrate it somehow.
Could you operate that as OCS territory and hand off the dispatch toe ETR?
For a 20 or 30 year lease they might build the wye for free.
The more difficult part it the integration of the signals with VIA dispatch, unless you have the ETR do the dispatching for you. But you still need to integrate the CTC signals with VIA.
That might require some new signals and cabling as well as upgrades to the backend systems.
I don't know how ETR does their signalling currently, but you would need to integrate it somehow.
Could you operate that as OCS territory and hand off the dispatch toe ETR?
crs1026
Senior Member
^The ETR currently operates at Rule 105, I suspect. In effect, that section is yard trackage with no dispatching. It really ought to be signalled if passenger is to be run, for speed as well as efficiency. Lots of ETR yard trackage would have to be moved. Assuming VIA/Amtrak would foot the bill, adding the segment to VIA's dispatching would not be a big deal.
VIA's CTC currently ends at George Ave, which is the east end of the "wye" (check Google Earth carefully, that connection to VIA's line is just a tail track). Personally I would extend the CTC all the way to the depot and just accept the short back up move - not a big time waster in the context of what happens at the border. I have never liked where Windsor's depot is located, but it would be costly to move it and I'm not sure there is a perfect location (or track access, for that matter).
Given the complexities of getting even a few trains through the border every day, I can't imagine that CP welcomes this idea. I am surprised it is being given a serious push by Amtrak. But it could be very well patronised, assuming the border formalities can be made painless.
- Paul
VIA's CTC currently ends at George Ave, which is the east end of the "wye" (check Google Earth carefully, that connection to VIA's line is just a tail track). Personally I would extend the CTC all the way to the depot and just accept the short back up move - not a big time waster in the context of what happens at the border. I have never liked where Windsor's depot is located, but it would be costly to move it and I'm not sure there is a perfect location (or track access, for that matter).
Given the complexities of getting even a few trains through the border every day, I can't imagine that CP welcomes this idea. I am surprised it is being given a serious push by Amtrak. But it could be very well patronised, assuming the border formalities can be made painless.
- Paul
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I'm sure the ETR would welcome the investment. Plus it could pay for some modernization for them with the land lease payments.
Is it really that hard for CP to accomodate a few trains a day through their tunnel?
drum118
Superstar
It shouldn't be hard to fit 2-4 trains through the tunnel when CP only runs about 35-40 trains today than are longer than in the past. CP Windsor yard is a shell of what it used to be, but more busy than than the empty CN yard.
Don't where things stand on rebuilding the Michigan Central Station at the end of the tunnel that was bought by FORD as part of an RD complex and train station.
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drum118
Superstar
Michigan Central Station is to have 4 platforms back in service for Amtrak in 2022
crs1026
Senior Member
@drum118 - do you have a source for this? I have been hunting for a documented statement - it wasn't part of the original Ford redevelopment plan, which had other uses for the trainshed area.... I can find articles saying Amtrak was considering it, but never an outcome.
(Doesn't help that the Detroit media are mostly behind paywall....)
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
Ford's site for the project is here: https://michigancentral.com/development/#michigan-central
It does show some retained tracks, no service details that I can see.
I found a reference to the 4 retained tracks, and Amtrak in the Wikipedia entry:
CEO of Ford Land, Dave Dubensky, stated during an interview with the Detroit Free Press that Ford plans to retain four of the passenger tracks at MCS in the event that Amtrak returns from the station in New Center as well as for potential commuter rail. Previous Amtrak routes that utilized MCS included the Wolverine, Lake Cities, Twilight Limited, and Niagara Rainbow.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Central_Station#As_an_active_station
And here in the non-paywalled article they cite, from the Detroit Free Press: https://www.freep.com/story/news/co...018/06/24/michigan-central-station/722967002/
KevinT
Active Member
What, no Helena? Ticket to Ride totally lied to me...
Allandale25
Senior Member
drum118
Superstar
April 4
Caught this CP train arriving at London Yard and stop too far to get a shot of the 2nd unit.
The west end of the yard looks out of service since the ladder tracks will have to be move for the grade separation at the Adelaide Street North. It will be interesting to see how the tracks are relocated for building the new bridge and if the ladder tracks get extended as well having 3 tracks on the bridge. Will miss my shooting location if a CP train is departing or arriving at the yard when I am in the city.
The temporary Adelaide Street Road will go next to the existing buildings that are being retain. The east-west road shift to the south with a full traffic light intersection than the current split.
Caught this CP train arriving at London Yard and stop too far to get a shot of the 2nd unit.
The west end of the yard looks out of service since the ladder tracks will have to be move for the grade separation at the Adelaide Street North. It will be interesting to see how the tracks are relocated for building the new bridge and if the ladder tracks get extended as well having 3 tracks on the bridge. Will miss my shooting location if a CP train is departing or arriving at the yard when I am in the city.
The temporary Adelaide Street Road will go next to the existing buildings that are being retain. The east-west road shift to the south with a full traffic light intersection than the current split.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
would be nice - especially if they could figure out pre-clearance or clearance on the train to eliminate border wait times.
A train 5-6 times a day to Buffalo that makes the trip in 2 hours or so would be very nice indeed.
They should be putting customs officers on the train to clear people, as well as clearance at Union. Clear people at union, clear anyone getting on an intermediate stop on the train. If anyone getting on doesn't clear, eject them at Niagara Falls. If further investigation is needed, eject at Niagara Falls and shuttle across via the NEXUS facility on the lower deck of the bridge and make them wait for the next train in Niagara Falls NY.
Other direction just clear everyone onboard with customs officers getting on at Buffalo. do the same thing - eject and evaluate at border facility for those that need more time. with planned GO improvements, these people wouldn't have to wait long for another train to complete the journey.
A train 5-6 times a day to Buffalo that makes the trip in 2 hours or so would be very nice indeed.
They should be putting customs officers on the train to clear people, as well as clearance at Union. Clear people at union, clear anyone getting on an intermediate stop on the train. If anyone getting on doesn't clear, eject them at Niagara Falls. If further investigation is needed, eject at Niagara Falls and shuttle across via the NEXUS facility on the lower deck of the bridge and make them wait for the next train in Niagara Falls NY.
Other direction just clear everyone onboard with customs officers getting on at Buffalo. do the same thing - eject and evaluate at border facility for those that need more time. with planned GO improvements, these people wouldn't have to wait long for another train to complete the journey.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
They could even start by making rail crossings exclusive to Nexus holders. A lot of folks who travel often enough have it.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The gov in general should be pushing NEXUS a lot more than it does - a lot of people aren't aware of how inexpensive and relatively easy it is to get, yet only a small percentage of people have it despite travelling across the border semi-regularly. Seriously - if you cross the border more than once a year it's probably worth getting.