General railway discussions

[lenaitch]

That's CN's only route to the port of Thunder Bay and the Fall grain harvest in the prairies is just getting underway.

 

[Northern Light]

I’m really curious what happened. Bridges usually don’t collapse, especially without carrying any loads…

From here:

Railway bridge collapses near Fort Frances

A pile of twisted metal lies at one end of a bridge that connects the CN network to the Port of Thunder Bay

www.nwonewswatch.com

This:

^^^^

Not a complete answer, but perhaps a clue........

Another pic:

Source: https://www.fox21online.com/content...29-3412409745726460-6104086313984956613-n.jpg

Pic courtesy Rainy Lake Property Owners Association

 

[lenaitch]

From here:

Railway bridge collapses near Fort Frances

A pile of twisted metal lies at one end of a bridge that connects the CN network to the Port of Thunder Bay

www.nwonewswatch.com

This:

View attachment 588424

^^^^

Not a complete answer, but perhaps a clue........

Another pic:

View attachment 588425

Source: https://www.fox21online.com/content...29-3412409745726460-6104086313984956613-n.jpg

Pic courtesy Rainy Lake Property Owners Association

There appears to be a camera on the pole to the right so hopefully they will have some images. Pure speculation but it appears to me that the counterweight support collapsed and when the bridge deck slammed down it bend its back.

The ties on the nearside look pretty random and not well ballasted.

 

[Fritter]

I know it is better business to have the railways abandon underused subdivisions and not just keep them for a "what if" scenario, however when the "what if" happens an alternative route looks very business savy. Good luck to CN and the grain farmers.

 

[micheal_can]

From here:

Railway bridge collapses near Fort Frances

A pile of twisted metal lies at one end of a bridge that connects the CN network to the Port of Thunder Bay

www.nwonewswatch.com

This:

View attachment 588424

^^^^

Not a complete answer, but perhaps a clue........

Another pic:

View attachment 588425

Source: https://www.fox21online.com/content...29-3412409745726460-6104086313984956613-n.jpg

Pic courtesy Rainy Lake Property Owners Association

I hope Transport Canada uses this as a way to update the maintenance standards of all rail lines.Imagine if that was when a train was crossing? Even though it likely would have been grain or other things like that, it still could have caused an environmental disaster.

I know it is better business to have the railways abandon underused subdivisions and not just keep them for a "what if" scenario, however when the "what if" happens an alternative route looks very business savy. Good luck to CN and the grain farmers.

The last decade has been showing the 2 main rail operators that an abandoned line might have been better to keep. The question is whether for these one off situations whether it would have actually been worth keeping. Only the bean counters really know.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[crs1026]

I hope Transport Canada uses this as a way to update the maintenance standards of all rail lines.Imagine if that was when a train was crossing? Even though it likely would have been grain or other things like that, it still could have caused an environmental disaster.

There are a lot of yet-to-be-proven assumptions being made alleging that the bridge (and by extension, the whole line) was under-maintained. We should wait for the official report to see whether this was the case.

This was, however, a pretty old bridge. One obvious question would be, how many equally old railway bridges are there in the country and how similar would their risk of failure be. I would bet the investigators will consider that question.

The last decade has been showing the 2 main rail operators that an abandoned line might have been better to keep. The question is whether for these one off situations whether it would have actually been worth keeping. Only the bean counters really know.

How is this relevant here? There are in fact two rail lines between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. Detours on CP are quite likely.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

There are a lot of yet-to-be-proven assumptions being made alleging that the bridge (and by extension, the whole line) was under-maintained. We should wait for the official report to see whether this was the case.

This was, however, a pretty old bridge. One obvious question would be, how many equally old railway bridges are there in the country and how similar would their risk of failure be. I would bet the investigators will consider that question.

Maintenance also includes inspections. Maybe this will have them change the frequency of those inspections.

How is this relevant here? There are in fact two rail lines between Winnipeg and Thunder Bay. Detours on CP are quite likely.

- Paul

When the FN blockades happened,and CN rerouted over the ONR into Northern Quebec, CP did not also do that. Hopefully CP will allow CN to detour, but that remains to be seen.

 

[lenaitch]

Maintenance also includes inspections. Maybe this will have them change the frequency of those inspections.

Canada, both federally and provincially, along with other governments, has downloaded a lot of regulatory oversight to industry under the guise of a Safety Management System, which essentially puts the fox in charge of the henhouse. Much of the actual, physical, on-site oversight has been reduced to paper audits.

Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

publications.gc.ca

When the FN blockades happened,and CN rerouted over the ONR into Northern Quebec, CP did not also do that. Hopefully CP will allow CN to detour, but that remains to be seen.

I don't recall that CP was blocked, or if they were, it wasn't for long.

 

[micheal_can]

Canada, both federally and provincially, along with other governments, has downloaded a lot of regulatory oversight to industry under the guise of a Safety Management System, which essentially puts the fox in charge of the henhouse. Much of the actual, physical, on-site oversight has been reduced to paper audits.

Information archivée dans le Web | Information Archived on the Web

publications.gc.ca

The question is whether this is enough to get the fox out of the henhouse. We shall see.

I don't recall that CP was blocked, or if they were, it wasn't for long.

You are right. I thought it was both of them as they were close to each other. It was just CN.

 

[lenaitch]

The question is whether this is enough to get the fox out of the henhouse. We shall see.

Not a chance. This is hardly the first infrastructure-related incident and the government loves it because it shifts responsibility and allows them to have fewer field staff. There website isn't as clear as it used to be but I can't find any indication the TSB has opened an incident on this.

This, in relation to airline safety. I get that it is a union perspective but the ICAO audit isn't flattering.

I'm all for encouraging a 'safety culture', but would you want restaurants posting their own inspection cards?

 

[micheal_can]

Not a chance. This is hardly the first infrastructure-related incident and the government loves it because it shifts responsibility and allows them to have fewer field staff. There website isn't as clear as it used to be but I can't find any indication the TSB has opened an incident on this.

This, in relation to airline safety. I get that it is a union perspective but the ICAO audit isn't flattering.

I'm all for encouraging a 'safety culture', but would you want restaurants posting their own inspection cards?

When was the last time a bridge collapsed?
When was the last time a rail bridge collapsed?

I do have my doubts much will change,but it would be nice.

 

[Bojaxs]

When was the last time a bridge collapsed?
When was the last time a rail bridge collapsed?

I do have my doubts much will change,but it would be nice.

It's like every time someone responds to you it just goes in one ear and out the other. Did anything @lenaitch say to you even register with you? He pretty much answered your "question" bang on.

 

[micheal_can]

It's like every time someone responds to you it just goes in one ear and out the other. Did anything @lenaitch say to you even register with you? He pretty much answered your "question" bang on.

I ask because it is not something that happens often, as apposed to the crashes that used to happen with airlines and the food poisonings.
TBH, I cannot think of the last time a bridge collapsed like this or worse. I was hoping someone might know so that this can be put into context.

 

[Urban Sky]

It's like every time someone responds to you it just goes in one ear and out the other. Did anything @lenaitch say to you even register with you? He pretty much answered your "question" bang on.

User @micheal_can only ever hears what he wants to hear, which is why most of us have blocked him here, in absence of mods who are willing to save us from his relentless trolling like they already did over on Skyscraperpage…