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General railway discussions

That the government of Canada funded the tracks, let them offload their passenger requirements, and has the good grace not to nationalize them.

This argument gets tiring.

WRT CPKC, the government wanted a railway to BC, but didn't want to build it themself, so they worked out a deal, with the CPR, if you build a railway, we will give you land. Quid pro quo. Later, when VIA took over CP's passenger service, it was VIA who approached CP and asked something like, "Can we please take over your passenger service? We don't want to compete with you."

WRT CN, the Canadian government sold the railway, and all of its ROWs with it. Q.E.D.
 
Today, the market capitalizations for the 2 railway companies are:
CN $97B
CPKC $107B

That covers asset in the Canada, USA, and Mexico for CPKC and Canada & USA for CN. Nationalizing either (or both) would be tough.
 
This argument gets tiring.

WRT CPKC, the government wanted a railway to BC, but didn't want to build it themself, so they worked out a deal, with the CPR, if you build a railway, we will give you land. Quid pro quo. Later, when VIA took over CP's passenger service, it was VIA who approached CP and asked something like, "Can we please take over your passenger service? We don't want to compete with you."

WRT CN, the Canadian government sold the railway, and all of its ROWs with it. Q.E.D.

This is going back a long way - CP was trying to get out of its passenger services even before VIA was established - CP abandoned its Montreal / Toronto passenger service leaving the field to CN I believe in the 1960's. CN at the time increased its service as a consequence, publicly announcing its commitment to it. Both CN and CP operated transcontinental train services - in the summer of 1964 I was on a student exchange trip (program sponsored by by the federal government as part of the run-up the the centennial celebrations on 1967) in Winnipeg, our group travelled on the CN line from Montreal.

As time progressed, basically both CN and CP wanted completely out of the passenger business in the latter half of the 20th century. The federal government created VIA in 1977 to take over their remaining long distance / intercity passenger services, and the two transcontinental lines were combined into the one current service operated by VIA. CP continued to operate its West Island commuter service while CN maintained its Two Mountains and South Shore services, until after several service cutbacks both were finally taken over by the Montreal Urban Community Transportation Corporation (MUCTC) agency of the Montreal in 1982.
 
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This is going back a long way - CP was trying to get out of its passenger services even before VIA was established - CP abandoned its Montreal / Toronto passenger service leaving the field to CN I believe in the 1960's. CN at the time increased its service as a consequence, publicly announcing its commitment to it.

It is quite possible that CP agreed not to compete with CN on this route. I suspect it happened when CN started operating Turbo, though I could be proven wrong.

Both CN and CP operated transcontinental train services - in the summer of 1964 I was on a student exchange trip (program sponsored by by the federal government as part of the run-up the the centennial celebrations on 1967) in Winnipeg, our group travelled on the CN line from Montreal.

Not quite sure what your point is, but okay.

As time progressed, basically both CN and CP wanted completely out of the passenger business in the latter half of the 20th century. The federal government created VIA in 1977 to take over their remaining long distance / intercity passenger services, and the two transcontinental lines were combined into the one current service operated by VIA. CP continued to operate its West Island commuter service while CN maintained its Two Mountains and South Shore services, until after several service cutbacks both were finally taken over by the Montreal Urban Community Transportation Corporation (MUCTC) agency of the Montreal in 1982.

Canadian Rail fans often confuse VIA Rail's and Amtrak's histories. Don't forget CN was a crown corporation and under no pressure to be profitable. As for CP Rail, they were receiving government subsidies to operate their passenger services, so weren't losing money the way the American Railroads were.

VIA was originally created as a rebranding of CN's passenger services. In VIA's first schedule, (April 25, 1976) said, "VIA - Heralding the birth of a new error at CN. New name, new colours. Lively. Dynamic. Now on Turbo, VIA will progressively appear on all CN passenger trains"

In VIA's October 31, 1976 Timetable, VIA combined CN's and CP Rail's trains into one schedule, both using the VIA prefix (VIA CN and VIA CP Rail), saying, "This fall-winter edition of the VIA 1976-77 timetable marks the first time that Canada's two major railways have combined the presentation of their national schedules. The merging of passenger train information is intended to help you and your travel agent to an easier and faster way to plan your rail travel. We are proud to jointly present it under our new shared name, VIA, and as a symbol of closer co-ordination and co-operation between our two companies."

VIA Rail Canada Inc. wasn't created until 1977. As per VIA's April 24, 1977 Schedule, "Exactly one year ago CN introduced the new VIA logo and colour scheme to reaffirm its commitment to the rail passenger business. In October 1976, VIA became a symbol of closer co-operation between CN and CPR Rail when both companies presented their first joint passenger timetable, Just recently, the VIA designation took on added significance with the Canadian Government announced the creation of VIA Rail Canada Inc., a company which will gradually assume responsibility for the provision and management of passenger railway services presently operated by CN and CP Rail."

I've heard some say that Pierre Elliot Trudeau saw the creation of Amtrak in the USA and wanted to do the same thing here, creating VIA Rail Canada, with the mandate to assume passenger rail responsibilities nation wide.
 
I've heard some say that Pierre Elliot Trudeau saw the creation of Amtrak in the USA and wanted to do the same thing here, creating VIA Rail Canada, with the mandate to assume passenger rail responsibilities nation wide.

It's worth digging for the actual story - one reads a lot of fact and a lot of fiction.

VIA's first CEO Frank Roberts appeared before the Transport Committee in late 1977 and gave this interesting and detailex explanation of where VIA was heading, and why. Some interesting comments on the difference between Amtrak at inception and Canada. Also of note, the original VIA network was greatly affected by a CTC study conducted around 1976.


There are any number of interesting statements in Hansard over the years, if one has the time to go looking.

- Paul
 

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