General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[the lemur]

The Highway Traffic Act doesn't say that. If multiple lanes, should be in right-hand lane. And otherwise should be "as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway".

147. (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway

That still means the right side of whatever right-hand lane there is, no matter how many or how few lanes.

Depending on the volume and speed of traffic, however, in practical terms, that means riding at least in the right-hand half of the curb lane. I don't see much merit in taking the lane all the time, generally because it means a car behind you will either be tailgating you or executing a closer than appropriate pass anyway.

It's not practicable to cycle so close to the curb, that you risk winging someone standing on the sidewalk!

That's also not really possible. For one thing, as I mentioned, being that close to the curb means gutter debris, curb/pedal strike zone and - I guess, although it's presumably infrequent - people waiting on the sidewalk who protrude into the handlebar zone.

Also when passing parked cars, it's not practicable to be close enough to the car you are passing, to be hit by the door if it opens.

Depending on the width of the lane, I find passing a parked car without being in the door zone means riding at the very left of that lane, right next to the dividing line, or just to the left of that line, at the very right of the next lane over.

The police consistently say that a bicycle has the right to take the lane.

The police consistently say that when it's a question of not being able to use the right-hand side of the curb lane (up to 1 m away from the curb itself). They don't say that cyclists should consistently take the lane in the sense of riding in the centre of the curb lane all the time.


http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/d11/20080617-d11_community_bulletin.pdf
cyclists should ride one meter from the curb or close to the right
hand edge of the road when there is no curb, unless they are turning left, going
faster than other vehicles or if the lane is too narrow to share

When going straight ahead, use the right-hand through lane. Stay about one
metre from the curb to avoid curb side hazards and ride in a straight line.

In urban areas where a curb lane is too narrow to share safely with a motorist, it
is legal to take the whole lane by riding in the centre of it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

So, Toronto should strive to be a World Class city by simply demolishing buildings as necessary to make all major streets at least 6 lanes wide and convert them to one way traffic configuration, ain't going to happen my friend. Just converting traffic patterns to one-way streets gives the trolley people a rash, no need to dream any further.

No. World class cities look for and allow other forms of transportation other than the car. They allow bicycles (and other kinds and types of moving people) to be another form of transportation, not a recreation form that should be hidden out of sight by car drivers.

We have politicians in Toronto who still think bicycles belong only in the river valleys and parks, not on or sharing the streets.

 

[nfitz]

From streetsblog.org at this link.

...

Too bad a non-world class city like New York City is doing this, unlike the world class city that Toronto is trying to be.

I spent 10 days this Christmas in Chelsea between 8th and 9th Avenue, and the only time I ever noticed a bike in those bike lanes, was on 8th Avenue ... but they were cycling in the wrong direction.

I was surprised how underused they were in December compared to how many cyclists there are in Toronto at that time of year, when it's just above freezing. Though they looked quite well used in the summer, based on Streetview (they weren't installed yet the last time I was in Chelsea in the summer).

The High Line was packed with pedestrians though!

 

[RC8]

New York is actually years behind Toronto in terms of developing a social infrastructure for bicycle culture.

Torontonians are also more likely to carry on business-as-usual in extremely cold weather because giving up their lifestyle for winter would practically mean taking a half-year hiatus.

I bike here, for pleasure, on days so cold I probably wouldn't even go outside on if I lived in a different country with nicer weather.

 

[spider]

No. World class cities look for and allow other forms of transportation other than the car. They allow bicycles (and other kinds and types of moving people) to be another form of transportation, not a recreation form that should be hidden out of sight by car drivers.

We have politicians in Toronto who still think bicycles belong only in the river valleys and parks, not on or sharing the streets.

I notice that you conveniently ignored the "one way" component in your comparison of the two cities' treatment of cyclists. Until you do so you are simply attempting to blow smoke up our butts, I quit smoking years ago. Suggest you do the same please.

 

[nfitz]

That still means the right side of whatever right-hand lane there is, no matter how many or how few lanes.

On the right side of the lane, sure. But not so close to the curb, that you risk hitting pedestrians standing on the sidewalk. It's that I pointed out initially, that you then objected to.

If you don't disagree with me ... I'm not sure why the need to ... to disagree!

 

[the lemur]

On the right side of the lane, sure. But not so close to the curb, that you risk hitting pedestrians standing on the sidewalk. It's that I pointed out initially, that you then objected to.

If you don't disagree with me ... I'm not sure why the need to ... to disagree!

Because you seem to be saying that riding on the right side of the lane, specifically to within one metre of the curb, is too close, due to the fact that you feel you'll be struck by a passing set of handlebars if you're on the sidewalk and between a lamp-post and the edge of the curb, when in fact it is not even feasible to ride that close and it is NOT what is intended by the HTA provision.

 

[vic]

Taking the lane

In the vast majority of places where lanes are marked on the road, a cyclist ends up "taking" the lane just by riding in an appropriate position, even if not in the exact middle of the lane. Most lanes are too narrow for a cyclist to share with a motorist, with the few exceptions generally found on wide arterial roads with the extra-wide curb lanes.

If you're riding your bike in the right side of the rightmost lane, about 1m from the curb, a motorist would still have to move over into the next lane to pass safely, leaving at least 1m from the cyclists left handlebar and body.

 

[nfitz]

Because you seem to be saying that riding on the right side of the lane, specifically to within one metre of the curb, is too close, due to the fact that you feel you'll be struck by a passing set of handlebars if you're on the sidewalk and between a lamp-post and the edge of the curb, when in fact it is not even feasible to ride that close and it is NOT what is intended by the HTA provision.

I don't think it's feasible to ride that close ... and while I haven't been hit, I've felt stuff brush me as bikes have passed, way too close to curb. Bikes shouldn't be much closer than 1 metre to the curb, however I've frequently seen them 1 foot.

Bikes should be taking their lane - and not trying to ride so close to the curb, that cars can pass them without changing lanes. It's dangerous for everyone. Now, that doesn't mean they should be in the left side of their lane.

 

[reaperexpress]

Wouldn't it be better to shift the sewer grates more into the heavier traffic lanes, leaving the bicycle lanes with a more smoother surface (baring potholes that will still appear). They should create a little bit of a ramp to separate the motor vehicles from the bicyclists, if designed right.

The new bike lanes on Stone Road in Guelph do this, if i'm not mistaken. They are sloped toward the roadway so that water drains into the sewers there.

And I think the south section of the Sherbourne Street bike lanes in Toronto is being rebuilt that way too.

 

[canmark]

Torontoist: Bixi Toronto Facing Financial Trouble
NOW: Bixi on the ropes?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Torontoist: Bixi Toronto Facing Financial Trouble
NOW: Bixi on the ropes?

Joy and celebration in Ford Nation.

(This above remark no way reflects my own personal feelings in this matter.)

 

[rbt]

Joy and celebration in Ford Nation.

(This above remark no way reflects my own personal feelings in this matter.)

I don't understand the problem. Bixi has been alive for 2 years and paid off 13% of the principal of their 10 year loan which is right on time (interest compounds, the first years are the slowest).

Refinance the remaining principal over 10 years rather than the 8 remaining and call it a day. That should give them a couple hundred thousand a year in relief.

BIXI Toronto's parent company is going to be privately owned pretty soon. I don't exactly think the city should be bending over backward to prop them up. Any money directed at BIXI would be better used by installing bicycle lanes through the core, which will likely help with BIXI ridership indirectly.

 

[k10ery]

I don't understand the problem. Bixi has been alive for 2 years and paid off 13% of the principal of their 10 year loan which is right on time (interest compounds, the first years are the slowest).

Refinance the remaining principal over 10 years rather than the 8 remaining and call it a day. That should give them a couple hundred thousand a year in relief.

BIXI Toronto's parent company is going to be privately owned pretty soon. I don't exactly think the city should be bending over backward to prop them up. Any money directed at BIXI would be better used by installing bicycle lanes through the core, which will likely help with BIXI ridership indirectly.

That refinancing might not be enough to do it. They've only got about 75% of the subscriptions they said they needed for break-even. That might be a temporary problem, but I doubt it. Without expansion (and who's going to finance that?) where are new subscribers coming from?

Bixi Minneapolis claims to be near break-even. But it looks like their original financing was mostly grants from government and foundations - not commercial credit.

 

[Filip]

That refinancing might not be enough to do it. They've only got about 75% of the subscriptions they said they needed for break-even. That might be a temporary problem, but I doubt it. Without expansion (and who's going to finance that?) where are new subscribers coming from?

Bixi Minneapolis claims to be near break-even. But it looks like their original financing was mostly grants from government and foundations - not commercial credit.

That's essentially exactly it. I did not renew my subscription past the first year because in its current form, BIXI is useless for me.

Sure it provided the occasional kicks, but not enough to keep me paying $100 a year. Now if they expanded, especially along the Martin Goodman Trail and into Humber Bay Shores (I see too many BIXI bikes there even though it's way out of the service area); then I would reconsider my membership.