General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[vic]

One of the best episodes of Mighty Machines is the one about clearing snow in Montreal.

 

[MisterF]

Just to put some numbers to it, Toronto on average gets 122 cm of snow every year. Montreal gets 210 cm. But Montreal has nothing on Barrie, which gets 286 cm every year.

Toronto gets more snow than people tend to give it credit for though. We get roughly the same about as anywhere in the Prairies.

 

[afransen]

Just to put some numbers to it, Toronto on average gets 122 cm of snow every year. Montreal gets 210 cm. But Montreal has nothing on Barrie, which gets 286 cm every year.

Toronto gets more snow than people tend to give it credit for though. We get roughly the same about as anywhere in the Prairies.

I think we can rely on periodic melts more than Montreal. It's less of a matter of how much snowfall we get. If it accumulates all season that becomes a problem.

 

[torontologist]

Folks, can someone explain why the Adelaide bike lane was moved to the north side of the street? Does it have something to do with Ontario Line construction and the streetcar diversions?

What used to be among the fastest, most convenient bike lanes in the city has become nearly useless. The new left turn arrows for cars have doubled wait times at each light, and the left turn lane is nearly always empty, so you sit there waiting for nothing. It is now extremely dangerous to turn right against three lanes of traffic. Who in their right mind thought that this was an improvement? Did they just hand over bike lane planning to carbrained traffic engineers?

And on top of that, there is that improperly installed island at the York St intersection

 

[DSC]

Folks, can someone explain why the Adelaide bike lane was moved to the north side of the street? Does it have something to do with Ontario Line construction and the streetcar diversions?

What used to be among the fastest, most convenient bike lanes in the city has become nearly useless. The new left turn arrows for cars have doubled wait times at each light, and the left turn lane is nearly always empty, so you sit there waiting for nothing. It is now extremely dangerous to turn right against three lanes of traffic. Who in their right mind thought that this was an improvement? Did they just hand over bike lane planning to carbrained traffic engineers?

And on top of that, there is that improperly installed island at the York St intersection

It was moved to north side to reduce conflicts with parking garage entrances and I actually think it works pretty well and I do feel much safer using it . The strange island at Adelaide and York was explained a bit up this thread - something to do with pedestrians but I agree it is very confusing for everyone - I guess it may be better when they turn on the new traffic lights at that intersection.

 

[Northern Light]

@DSC is entirely correct, as per the norm.

But just to offer the official blurb:

From: https://www.toronto.ca/services-pay...oronto/cycling-pedestrian-projects/rich-adel/

 

[txlseries4]

That is factually wrong. How can you take a city that has grown tremendously in recent years and reduce traffic capacity by 50% on roads where lanes have been removed in order to create bike lanes and not expect increased congestion and travel times.

Facts like the traffic volume counting the city does? All the counting is recorded between 07:30 - 18:00.

Bloor at Palmerston, bike lanes installed Aug 2016

|Count Date|Cars  |Bicycles|Bike/Car Volume|Walking|Grand Total|
|----------|------|--------|---------------|-------|-----------|
|2024-07-23|6,406 |3,651   |10,057         |5,517  |15,574     |
|2023-09-26|6,779 |2,925   |9,704          |4,914  |14,618     |
|2023-12-19|6,519 |1,110   |7,629          |6,350  |13,979     |
|2018-01-10|8,172 |640     |8,812          |4,560  |13,372     |
|2010-05-10|9,253 |0       |9,253          |2,664  |11,917     |
|2006-11-21|9,798 |442     |10,240         |3,847  |14,087     |
|2003-05-05|10,406|155     |10,561         |2,265  |12,826     |
|1999-04-14|10,176|440     |10,616         |4,532  |15,148     |
|1992-04-09|12,076|0       |12,076         |5,822  |17,898     |

Bloor at Keele/Parkside, bike lanes installed ~summer 2020-2021

|Count Date|Cars  |Bicycles|Bike/Car Volume|Walking|Grand Total|
|----------|------|--------|---------------|-------|-----------|
|2024-06-11|19,036|912     |19,948         |3,939  |23,887     |
|2022-02-10|17,424|92      |17,516         |2,835  |20,351     |
|2022-02-12|16,857|65      |16,922         |2,717  |19,639     |
|2021-12-18|15,371|44      |15,415         |2,281  |17,696     |
|2021-12-16|19,325|1,003   |20,328         |2,033  |22,361     |
|2021-08-14|18,232|987     |19,219         |3,764  |22,983     |
|2021-08-12|20,191|576     |20,767         |2,434  |23,201     |
|2021-06-24|21,321|940     |22,261         |2,847  |25,108     |
|2021-06-26|17,045|422     |17,467         |2,823  |20,290     |
|2020-09-30|17,516|403     |17,919         |3,047  |20,966     |
|2020-09-29|18,704|730     |19,434         |3,595  |23,029     |
|2020-07-29|15,964|583     |16,547         |3,060  |19,607     |
|2020-07-28|16,777|580     |17,357         |3,247  |20,604     |
|2019-01-26|20,833|32      |20,865         |2,204  |23,069     |
|2017-01-12|23,857|85      |23,942         |3,018  |26,960     |
|2012-05-29|21,513|539     |22,052         |2,649  |24,701     |
|2008-09-10|25,699|138     |25,837         |2,085  |27,922     |

Danforth at Broadview, bike lanes installed summer of 2020

|Count Date|Cars  |Bicycles|Bike/Car Volume|Walking|Grand Total|
|----------|------|--------|---------------|-------|-----------|
|2022-06-23|15,278|2,054   |17,332         |6,723  |24,055     |
|2022-06-25|12,859|1,690   |14,549         |5,865  |20,414     |
|2022-04-28|15,564|862     |16,426         |6,763  |23,189     |
|2022-03-05|13,921|330     |14,251         |5,133  |19,384     |
|2021-09-29|17,983|2,111   |20,094         |6,421  |26,515     |
|2021-08-24|12,881|929     |13,810         |4,316  |18,126     |
|2021-06-24|15,819|2,034   |17,853         |5,717  |23,570     |
|2020-08-28|14,725|2,303   |17,028         |5,617  |22,645     |
|2020-05-29|13,871|768     |14,639         |3,881  |18,520     |
|2017-11-29|18,481|1,028   |19,509         |12,023 |31,532     |
|2015-04-11|15,716|301     |16,017         |9,228  |25,245     |
|2014-05-03|19,989|409     |20,398         |6,264  |26,662     |

College and Bathurst, separated cycle tracks installed on College St 2022-2023

|Count Date|Cars  |Bicycles|Bike/Car Volume|Walking|Grand Total|
|----------|------|--------|---------------|-------|-----------|
|2024-09-05|14,229|3,351   |17,580         |9,757  |27,337     |
|2022-06-30|14,549|1,811   |16,360         |7,348  |23,708     |
|2022-07-02|11,006|1,733   |12,739         |5,473  |18,212     |
|2022-04-28|14,536|1,347   |15,883         |4,884  |20,767     |
|2022-04-30|13,034|1,353   |14,387         |5,566  |19,953     |
|2015-04-08|15,459|779     |16,238         |7,459  |23,697     |
|2015-04-11|13,998|979     |14,977         |8,776  |23,753     |
|2011-06-01|19,533|2,931   |22,464         |7,209  |29,673     |

Ok wait, how about in Bloor West Village, at Bloor St W and Runnymede, bike lanes went in there 2020

|Count Date|Cars  |Bicycles|Bike/Car Volume|Walking|Grand Total|
|----------|------|--------|---------------|-------|-----------|
|2024-04-30|10,542|383     |10,925         |12,266 |23,191     |
|2023-06-20|11,832|633     |12,465         |12,659 |25,124     |
|2021-08-12|10,986|315     |11,301         |8,245  |19,546     |
|2021-06-24|11,263|463     |11,726         |7,651  |19,377     |
|2020-09-29|10,427|561     |10,988         |8,715  |19,703     |
|2020-07-29|10,690|542     |11,232         |7,423  |18,655     |
|2019-02-09|12,209|44      |12,253         |12,387 |24,640     |
|2017-01-12|13,677|68      |13,745         |11,632 |25,377     |
|2010-05-19|14,232|0       |14,232         |11,003 |25,235     |

 

[Ward8]

That is factually wrong. How can you take a city that has grown tremendously in recent years and reduce traffic capacity by 50% on roads where lanes have been removed in order to create bike lanes and not expect increased congestion and travel times. Toronto streets were not originally designed to accommodate bike lanes and lanes for cars)

There are two things you get incorrect here. The first is your exclusion of the bike lane as part of the traffic capacity. As the above post shows they are a meaningful chunk of traffic capacity on these streets. The second Item you got wrong is the assertion that removing a vehicle lane reduces "traffic capacity by 50%" This seems intuitive, but a 3 lane road has nearly the identical capacity of a 4 lane road because a 4 lane road turns into a 3 lane road at every intersection where left turns are allowed. 3 lane road can even improve traffic flow by eliminating unnecessary lane changing. The reality is that most of our streets could be converted to 3 lanes and not much would change.

 

[afransen]

That is factually wrong. How can you take a city that has grown tremendously in recent years and reduce traffic capacity by 50% on roads where lanes have been removed in order to create bike lanes and not expect increased congestion and travel times. Toronto streets were not originally designed to accommodate bike lanes and lanes for cars)

Toronto traffic planners are either the worst in the world at what they do (if their intentions are to expedite as much traffic as safely and efficiently as possible) or the best in the world at what they do (if their intentions are to impede traffic flow through every possible means...bike lanes, cafe TO, street cars, dedicated LRT lanes).

There are some simple changes that could make a difference but the politicians and bureaucrats do not have the courage to do it.

I think you'll find that Toronto streets weren't originally designed for cars at all.

 

[J Bacon]

Nobody is forcing you to engage in a cycling forum with anti-cycling rhetoric and then continue after people call it out and get angry with you.

So my only logical conclusion is that you're enjoying it. The least you can do is respond with substantive attempts to defend your indefensible position.

This is a hostile point of view that probably bubbles up the chain and results in the heavy handed legislation that is currently being proposed.
Attacking fellow citizens and voters as indefensible is interesting and borderline tyrannical.

I see no evidence of anti-cycling being posted here, nobody is saying there shouldn't be bike lanes.
It is being put forth that it should be done differently than it is currently being done.

 

[J Bacon]

I think you'll find that Toronto streets weren't originally designed for cars at all.

And so? They also weren't designed for bikes.

 

[UntitledCyclist]

And so? They also weren't designed for bikes.

He was responding to a false claim. What are you offering besides "whataboutist" one liners? No one said roads were designed for bikes. First there were wildlife trails, First Nations trade and travel routes, eventually settlers made dirt paths for carts and foot. Over time roads were paved which was actually at least in large part pushed for by cyclist lobbies. Then, as cars began to dominate, design shifted that way. There is no ONE use for roads, and the point that many here would make, is that by sharing the space more equitably among modes of transport – especially less polluting and less dangerous ones like bikes, micromobility and pedestrianism – we make the streets and the city a better place.

 

[J Bacon]

He was responding to a false claim. What are you offering besides "whataboutist" one liners? No one said roads were designed for bikes. First there were wildlife trails, First Nations trade and travel routes, eventually settlers made dirt paths for carts and foot. Over time roads were paved which was actually at least in large part pushed for by cyclist lobbies. Then, as cars began to dominate, design shifted that way. There is no ONE use for roads, and the point that many here would make, is that by sharing the space more equitably among modes of transport – especially less polluting and less dangerous ones like bikes, micromobility and pedestrianism – we make the streets and the city a better place.

It's a problem to respond to a one liner with a one liner? Hilarious.

The problem is preaching ideology as "the best way to do it" as justification to go down a certain path that negatively impacts your fellow citizens.
Again, nobody is arguing against bike lanes but removing road capacity and flow from a region where there is an increasing reliance on car travel is basically an affront to those that rely on car travel.

 

[Chris R.]

This is a hostile point of view that probably bubbles up the chain and results in the heavy handed legislation that is currently being proposed.
Attacking fellow citizens and voters as indefensible is interesting and borderline tyrannical.

I see no evidence of anti-cycling being posted here, nobody is saying there shouldn't be bike lanes.
It is being put forth that it should be done differently than it is currently being done.

I don't really care.

I was hit on my bicycle for the second time two weeks ago, people regularly yell at me, close pass me and try to kill me when on my bicycle. I don't really care about people's feelings on my responses to their clearly insensitive and illogical ramblings about bike lanes.

I can listen, but I don't have to accept people's opinion or respond with respectful agreement. When people stop trying to kill me on a regular basis, I'll be a more friendly citizen. Until then, I'm fighting for my life.

 

[J Bacon]

I don't really care.

I was hit on my bicycle for the second time two weeks ago, people regularly yell at me, close pass me and try to kill me when on my bicycle. I don't really care about people's feelings on my responses to their clearly insensitive and illogical ramblings about bike lanes.

I can listen, but I don't have to accept people's opinion or respond with respectful agreement. When people stop trying to kill me on a regular basis, I'll be a more friendly citizen. Until then, I'm fighting for my life.

This is nonsensical.

NOBODY said there shouldn't be bike lanes - everyone is expressing an opinion that includes bike lanes, most are exceptionally displeased at the method of implementation.