General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[Cambry Ardship]

You mentioned removing road capacity. But the data that txlseries4 posted at the top of this page shows clearly that introducing bike lanes does not seem to reduce overall capacity, and in the case of Bloor/Palmerston it's nearly doubled.

So, if you are not "preaching ideology as 'the best way to do it'" then where's your data to support the assertion that bike lanes are reducing "road capacity and flow"?

 

[bearcat]

It's a problem to respond to a one liner with a one liner? Hilarious.

The problem is preaching ideology as "the best way to do it" as justification to go down a certain path that negatively impacts your fellow citizens.
Again, nobody is arguing against bike lanes but removing road capacity and flow from a region where there is an increasing reliance on car travel is basically an affront to those that rely on car travel.

I am again asking you what your opinions are on removing all street parking from major streets permanently, given that parking definitely decreases the road capacity and flow in my opinion?

I am also curious to hear at least one example of a specific bike lane that took away traffic lanes that you don't like, and what you would have done differently to provide a safe route for cyclists in that area.

 

[J Bacon]

I am again asking you what your opinions are on removing all street parking from major streets permanently, given that parking definitely decreases the road capacity and flow in my opinion?

Yes, we should be removing on street parking in favour of moving around.
We've grown to the point where it's becoming a wasted opportunity.
I don't buy the argument from businesses that those handful of parking spaces that "might be" available for one of their customers is crucial to their survival.

I am also curious to hear at least one example of a specific bike lane that took away traffic lanes that you don't like, and what you would have done differently to provide a safe route for cyclists in that area.

This is all coming from someone that doesn't drive to work and would prefer not to, but still appreciates and enjoys driving around when necessary.

Bloor (roughly from the DVP to Bathurst)
- There is no need for street parking here as there are plenty of parking garages around, ideally 4 lanes would've been maintained with a dedicated bike lane on either side
- Another idea would've been to have 3 lanes, one in each direction with the centre functioning as a turn lane with fully separated bike lanes on either side
- Alternative solutions could've been explored such as removing street parking on Charles and replacing that with a bi-directional cycle track

Willowdale Ave
- Traffic flow negatively impacted by the loss of ability to move around turning vehicles through reduced road width
- The ROW is wide enough to have fully separated bike lanes on either side or a bi-directional cycle track on one side

Brimley Road
- Road lane removal negatively impacting travel times (now this has all been removed as if it never happened)
- More than enough room to keep the 4 lanes of traffic and a bi-directional cycle track on one side of the road OR fully separated bike lane on each side

 

[PinkLucy]

Bringing the discussions around bike lane policy proposed by Ford et al here https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-toronto-bike-lanes-1.7332276

 

[bearcat]

Yes, we should be removing on street parking in favour of moving around.
We've grown to the point where it's becoming a wasted opportunity.
I don't buy the argument from businesses that those handful of parking spaces that "might be" available for one of their customers is crucial to their survival.



This is all coming from someone that doesn't drive to work and would prefer not to, but still appreciates and enjoys driving around when necessary.

Bloor (roughly from the DVP to Bathurst)
- There is no need for street parking here as there are plenty of parking garages around, ideally 4 lanes would've been maintained with a dedicated bike lane on either side
- Another idea would've been to have 3 lanes, one in each direction with the centre functioning as a turn lane with fully separated bike lanes on either side
- Alternative solutions could've been explored such as removing street parking on Charles and replacing that with a bi-directional cycle track

Willowdale Ave
- Traffic flow negatively impacted by the loss of ability to move around turning vehicles through reduced road width
- The ROW is wide enough to have fully separated bike lanes on either side or a bi-directional cycle track on one side

Brimley Road
- Road lane removal negatively impacting travel times (now this has all been removed as if it never happened)
- More than enough room to keep the 4 lanes of traffic and a bi-directional cycle track on one side of the road OR fully separated bike lane on each side

Okay, thanks for the reply. I am glad we are on the same page re: parking. Your suggestions don't sound unreasonable to me, and in the cases you've described it certainly could have been possible to maintain all or more vehicle lanes, though it could have potentially cost more due to having relocate hydro poles, streetlights, trees, etc.

My main concern is the outright banning of removal of car lanes for bike lanes proposed by this law would have prevented for example the really busy and well used Adelaide and Richmond bike lanes from being built, without sacrificing the sidewalk space, which is always very busy, and removing some of the few trees that line the streets.

 

[evandyk]

The problem with those suggestions, which most people around here would agree with, is that the cars crowd typically scream as loudly about any loss of parking and they do driving lanes, even if there is abundant off-street parking nearby.

 

[ey2470]

Yes, we should be removing on street parking in favour of moving around.
We've grown to the point where it's becoming a wasted opportunity.
I don't buy the argument from businesses that those handful of parking spaces that "might be" available for one of their customers is crucial to their survival.



This is all coming from someone that doesn't drive to work and would prefer not to, but still appreciates and enjoys driving around when necessary.

Bloor (roughly from the DVP to Bathurst)
- There is no need for street parking here as there are plenty of parking garages around, ideally 4 lanes would've been maintained with a dedicated bike lane on either side
- Another idea would've been to have 3 lanes, one in each direction with the centre functioning as a turn lane with fully separated bike lanes on either side
- Alternative solutions could've been explored such as removing street parking on Charles and replacing that with a bi-directional cycle track

Willowdale Ave
- Traffic flow negatively impacted by the loss of ability to move around turning vehicles through reduced road width
- The ROW is wide enough to have fully separated bike lanes on either side or a bi-directional cycle track on one side

Brimley Road
- Road lane removal negatively impacting travel times (now this has all been removed as if it never happened)
- More than enough room to keep the 4 lanes of traffic and a bi-directional cycle track on one side of the road OR fully separated bike lane on each side

I fully agree with the first part of your reply. As a person who drove and biked along Bloor and Willowdale numerous times, I am not buying the suggestion of adding a travel lane/turning lane in place of street parking on these two streets. This will only induce traffic and increase conflict points between different road users.

For Bloor, I do think the current set up is relatively efficient other than when cars making left turns at minor intersections and holding up traffic. We should just limit left turns to only signalized intersections with enough "storage area" in left turn lanes. I support converting some of the street parking to loading area, considering the number of trucks/uber/police cars blocking bike lanes lately. Where possible, bike lanes should be widened, especially to the west of Spadina, the painted ones are just way too narrow.

For Willowdale, I never find it congested even during rush hour, and left turn vehicles would typically clear the intersection in seconds most of the time. I don't think any changes is needed to the current configuration.

I don't like the idea of bi-directional bike lanes on high-traffic roads. It's another added conflict point at intersections between bikes and cars, and it is not fair to businesses on the other side of the bike lane.

 

[PL1]

I don't like the idea of bi-directional bike lanes on high-traffic roads. It's another added conflict point at intersections between bikes and cars, and it is not fair to businesses on the other side of the bike lane.

My concern about bi-directional cycle tracks is that motorists will not expect a cyclist to be arriving at an intersection from the "wrong" direction (e.g. from the right), and that may lead to some collisions. We'll see.

 

[Towered]

The Old Sod on Bloor near Royal York was selling this filth during Taste of the Kingsway recently

 

[evandyk]

I wonder if they think doing that brings in nearly as many people as it alienates? Obviously there's a bunch of people who will avoid the place now at all costs, but is anyone really going to be like "The Old Sod? The guys who sold those Fuck Cyclists T-Shirts? Let's go their instead of somewhere else!"?

 

[J Bacon]

The problem with those suggestions, which most people around here would agree with, is that the cars crowd typically scream as loudly about any loss of parking and they do driving lanes, even if there is abundant off-street parking nearby.

Seems like it's usually the owners that scream about the loss of parking in front of their establishments.

Which seems odd to me because in a busy area, you are rarely able to park in front of your destination so what difference would it make to them if we needed to park in a nearby garage / lot / side street?

 

[evandyk]

It's because the owners park in front.

 

[J Bacon]

The Old Sod on Bloor near Royal York was selling this filth during Taste of the Kingsway recently

I assume that this kind of reaction is arising because they are displeased with HOW bike lanes are being implemented, not that bike lanes exist.

 

[evandyk]

Yes, it's always about HOW, or about consultation, or about timing. It's never about the new bike lanes, or the new housing project, or the new dog park, or the new playground.

 

[J Bacon]

Facts like the traffic volume counting the city does? All the counting is recorded between 07:30 - 18:00.

You mentioned removing road capacity. But the data that txlseries4 posted at the top of this page shows clearly that introducing bike lanes does not seem to reduce overall capacity, and in the case of Bloor/Palmerston it's nearly doubled.

So, if you are not "preaching ideology as 'the best way to do it'" then where's your data to support the assertion that bike lanes are reducing "road capacity and flow"?

Selective Facts - we are talking about road changes that impact vehicles.
Including the increase in pedestrians and using that to justify road changes is incorrect - for all we know the change in pedestrians could've happened even if we made no alterations to the road.

See below for the change in vehicle + bike volume based on the start and end dates of the data you provided.
In some cases there is an increase in overall vehicle count but this doesn't consider if there was extra capacity already available at the particular intersection.

Also being just a vehicle count, what about cars with multiple occupants or busses?
If vehicular travel time has increased we end up negatively impacting these individuals.

Bloor at Palmerston, bike lanes installed Aug 2016
Vehicle Volume Change +33%

Bloor at Keele/Parkside, bike lanes installed ~summer 2020-2021
Vehicle Volume Change -7%

Danforth at Broadview, bike lanes installed summer of 2020
Vehicle Volume Change +16%

College and Bathurst, separated cycle tracks installed on College St 2022-2023
Vehicle Volume Change -18%

Ok wait, how about in Bloor West Village, at Bloor St W and Runnymede, bike lanes went in there 2020
Vehicle Volume Change -11%