General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[the lemur]

I'd be more in favour of banning cars. Or banning people who suggest we should ban bikes.

Why not just ban Andrew, since the sight of people biking safely is too much for his delicate constitution? I'll happily chip in for VIA fare back to Kingston. OH WAIT NO TRAINS IS DANGEROUS YOU GUYS.

 

[the lemur]

See http://webarchive.nationalarchives....h/rsrr/theme5/indepthstudyofmotorcycleacc.pdf

"Motorcyclists have an especially poor safety record when compared to other road user groups. Their killed and serious injury (KSI) rate in the UK, per million vehicle kilometres, is approximately twice that of pedal cyclists and over 16 times that of car drivers and passengers. Motorcyclists make up less than 1% of vehicle traffic but their riders suffer 14% of total deaths and serious injuries on Britain’s roads (DETR, 2000)."

In other words bicycling is 8x as dangerous as driving and riding a motorcycle is 16x as dangerous.

Cyclists have a high KSI rate in the UK because cycling infrastructure in the UK is generally crap compared to mainland Europe.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/book.htm

 

[nfitz]

Why not just ban Andrew, since the sight of people biking safely is too much for his delicate constitution?

Not sure we can do that ... but perhaps we can all chip in for some blinders, so he can walk the streets without seeing the bikes passing him.

 

[the lemur]

The fact of the matter is that bicycling in Toronto is dangerous. Isn't this rather obvious? There was a bike accident at Sheppard near Jane when I was writing this post. Yes, I know that I am going to have a hard time convincing other people in this forum, but the city put out a report a few months ago stating that bicycling is dangerous and that bike lanes are dangerous. Also I think that the vast majority of Toronto's population realizes this. Bicycles are a small percentage of the traffic downtown and you rarely see them in any other part of the city. Also the bike lanes downtown are filled with potholes, garbage, parked cars, streetcar tracks and other hazards.

The only way you are going to stop bike accidents is if you ban bicycling on major roads.

Where's this report you speak of?

Sheppard and Jane is a lousy place to bike. What's the ratio of bike collisions downtown vs outlying areas? Downtown streets are among the safest places to ride, especially when traffic is at a crawl.

And I'm sorry, your assertion as to what bike lanes downtown are full of only illustrates what YOU are full of. You'd know better if you actually biked, but of course you don't.

Think biking is unsafe? Then don't bike.

Think other people shouldn't bike? Mind your own business.

 

[the lemur]

Not sure we can do that ... but perhaps we can all chip in for some blinders, so he can walk the streets without seeing the bikes passing him.

Yeah, but walking is only marginally less dangerous than biking. The fact of the matter is that walking in Toronto is dangerous. People have been killed while walking lately. I just do not think that there is any way to make walking beside major roads safe. We have tried separate sidewalks on a few roads in Toronto and they have obvious safety problems (streetcar tracks, vehicles blocking them, construction blocking them, sandwich signs, falling glass, sleeping homeless people, dog poo, obnoxious charity people, smokers carelessly tossing smouldering cigarette butts, etc.)

 

[Napoleon]

Why not just ban Andrew, since the sight of people biking safely is too much for his delicate constitution? I'll happily chip in for VIA fare back to Kingston. OH WAIT NO TRAINS IS DANGEROUS YOU GUYS.

Well with 856 posts and only 6 "likes", I think we can all see how much he is contributing to the conversation here.

 

[nfitz]

Well with 856 posts and only 6 "likes", I think we can all see how much he is contributing to the conversation here.

Really? Why would anyone even look at that?

Likes were only recently enabled a few weeks ago, and the poster only averages a dozen posts a month.

Likes are a very shallow measurement; while it can indicate good content - it also indicates those that follow the heard.

 

[salsa]

 

[the lemur]

View attachment 60820

On-street parking is rarely as vital as some people seem to think it is. I can't think of any stretch of Bloor between Shaw and Avenue where it's really necessary given the types of businesses along it and the presence of off-street lots.

Putting in bike lanes, even though it does reduce the number of travel lanes for cars, also means separating bikes from cars so that both travel more freely and quickly. We don't just need modified signal timing but also dedicated signals and separation at intersections as well.

 

[PinkLucy]

There were three options presented as per https://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2015/12/02/bike-lanes-on-bloor-dec-2-2015/

 

[the lemur]

There were three options presented as per https://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2015/12/02/bike-lanes-on-bloor-dec-2-2015/

I really hope they lean towards using parking to separate bike lanes from the rest of the road. It already works on Hoskin and a short stretch of Simcoe. No one really likes having bikes between moving & parked cars.

 

[salsa]

On-street parking is rarely as vital as some people seem to think it is. I can't think of any stretch of Bloor between Shaw and Avenue where it's really necessary given the types of businesses along it and the presence of off-street lots.

Putting in bike lanes, even though it does reduce the number of travel lanes for cars, also means separating bikes from cars so that both travel more freely and quickly. We don't just need modified signal timing but also dedicated signals and separation at intersections as well.

Yonge Street hasn't had street parking for many years, I wonder how do those businesses survive? I'm sure Bloor would do just as well without parking, but that option has been taken off the table in an attempt to appease some of the sceptics. The reality is, when the time comes for the council vote, it will be the suburban councillors who never drive on Bloor who will get to decide what will be build on Bloor.

 

[Napoleon]

On-street parking is rarely as vital as some people seem to think it is. I can't think of any stretch of Bloor between Shaw and Avenue where it's really necessary given the types of businesses along it and the presence of off-street lots.

Putting in bike lanes, even though it does reduce the number of travel lanes for cars, also means separating bikes from cars so that both travel more freely and quickly. We don't just need modified signal timing but also dedicated signals and separation at intersections as well.

One can be hopeful. The experience with the Adelaide/Richmond lanes was that despite losing a lane for cars, their travel times remained about the same or even better!

 

[salsa]

Mailing tickets to people parked in bike lanes could be coming. 3% of all parking tickets were cancelled because the driver drove away before the ticket was issued. For every bike lane ticket issued, the city estimates three other drivers avoid the ticket by driving away.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...-tickets-could-soon-be-delivered-by-mail.html

 

[smably]

I have to say, I'm disappointed by the timidity of the options presented for the Bloor bike lane pilot. The biggest issue is that the lanes need to be physically separated. Not on one side, but on both sides. Anyone from age eight to eighty should feel safe riding there. For many people, with nothing but a painted line separating them from a car lane, they may as well be riding on the 401. I talked to some staff at the open house and they acknowledged that they disqualified the "no street parking" option because they didn't think it would fly at council. (Which is pretty sad, considering that only 10% of shoppers in the Annex come by car.)

Staff also suggested that properly separated bike lanes might be possible after the pilot, once retailers are reassured that the sky isn't falling.