picard102
Senior Member
I give the police a C+ grade for this weekend. No need for anyone to resign.
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G-20 Summit in Toronto
- Thread starter TO City of Light
- Start date
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
The converse of that is that since we have evidence of black bloc rioters changing out of their black clothes and into regular clothes to blend in, thus lieing trying to hide their identities (lying) than they'd be lieing about being part of a peaceful protest.
js97
Senior Member
it's funny cause it's the same people that cry about being judged and persecuted... I ask where is the evidence?
He's a JOURNALIST... is there a chance he is lying to sell a story??? Get more facetime?? Perhaps he saw a struggle that in his mind was intrepreted as an assault?
Where are the bruises? broken bones? black eyes?
You're asking the chief of police to resign because one guy says he say somethign with no concrete evidence?
If a low level City administrator is charged and convicted with fraud or the like, do you ask David miller to resign?
At least be consistent if you plan to be not reasonable.
nfitz
Superstar
If the police and Miller were giving the police a C+ I'd agree. However, both are giving them an A to A+. That's why Blair need to resign. And if Miller continues to claim the police did nothing wrong, with mounting evidence that there were beatings, systemic abuse at the detention facility, and the mass arrest of non-protesters, then he should resign as well.
nfitz
Superstar
Hang on ... are your claiming that one of the most respected journalists in Toronto is lying?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
js97:
Quite right about that - clearly we need an in-depth investigation to ascertain exactly what happened during the event(s). Surely as someone interested in the truth you'd be all for it?
AoD
Quite right about that - clearly we need an in-depth investigation to ascertain exactly what happened during the event(s). Surely as someone interested in the truth you'd be all for it?
AoD
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nfitz
Superstar
Yes, it was good. I was there too on Sunday afternoon. I loved the lack of crowds. I assume you were gone by mid-afternoon Sunday ... as we were arriving a couple of vans pulled up with G20 Delegate signs (signs! with what was going on ... not bright), some security-looking types, and a lot of well dressed women. I was wondering whose spouses my 2-year old was annoying ... by constantly shouting that she wanted to see the dinosaurs.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Speaking of the so called benefits to the city - I am sure this is yet another glowing example:
http://spacingtoronto.ca/2010/06/25/lorinc-the-city-that-dare-not-speaks-its-name/
Bit surprised no one caught on to it.
AoD
http://spacingtoronto.ca/2010/06/25/lorinc-the-city-that-dare-not-speaks-its-name/
Bit surprised no one caught on to it.
AoD
js97
Senior Member
CUrious... did you grow up in a cushy home in the burbs?
I'd give Toronto Police a A. Why? look at the results
No loss of life, no serious injuries to mention, and minimal damage to properties. (Imagine if one of the queen street store fronts had caught on blaze?)
Eastside
Active Member
There was at least one man who was (relatively) seriously hurt at Queen's Park. He was beaten (by police, allegedly) quite badly, and one of his arms was broken. He was on the news this evening. SIU visited him at the hospital.
ShonTron
Moderator
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Thank you!
Your earlier post and your assessment above are some of the best analyzes I read.
I am very disappointed with the police and Bill Blair because I know they have been a progressive, approachable force, especially since Miller forced out Fantino (I wouldn't want to imagine the weekend with him in charge). Disappointed because I saw the somewhat hostile protest march on Friday and saw a huge build-up of police forces, but very little actual violence and very few arrests despite many potential showdowns. The police were polite and even friendly (but firm) with bystanders up to Saturday afternoon - the time I left work (I had to work Saturday and Sunday, just this weekend) to head for the suburbs, ending up on a GO Transit bus because that was the only quick way out (by this time, the subway and GO trains and TTC surface routes were all shut down, I got on one of the last GO buses out) of what I sensed was going to be a deteriorating situation. Disappointed is the right word.
I support some sort of inquiry, if only to learn from the mistakes and sort out the biggest questions surrounding the fog of the weekend that was. I looked at the Facebook page that was calling for one, but won't join, partly because of all the avatars like "F--k the police" - that's not helpful.
I think part of the problem was that everyone was caught off guard by the "Black Bloc", and there was likely a too-tempting urge to over-compensate for that (exhibited by public comments as well). There were also many different police forces in town, working in mixed groups (different cultures, issues of confusion, perhaps poor direction), plus fatigue, plus that temptation all contributed to the bad calls made at the Novotel and at Queen and Spadina. I see a lot of grey as well.
I also think the G20 was not worth it. There was no consensus on the big issues apart from perhaps dangerous rushes to cut in the name of austerity. The real, legit, protesters with real issues were not heard. Hundreds of thousands of people experienced disruptions (and some were wrongfully detained), businesses were hurt, apart from hotels. The police lose face, deserved or not. This was a disaster on so many levels.
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toraerach
Active Member
I would consider a man passing out in custody after being denied the medical care he needed (insulin) for eighteen hours to be a serious injury.
If only half of these allegations prove to be true, the police do not deserve an "A" grade. The results you mention also include a huge blow to the reputation of police forces in this country. The way the TPS handled the Tamil protests last year calmly and with cool heads deserved an "A." The way they and officers with other forces conducted themselves this weekend is inexcusable. Rights were thrown out the window as human dignity (and in a few cases, human bodies) were trampled upon. Peaceful protests were interrupted and bystanders detained while the real criminals wreaked havoc on parts of the city. Francophone detainees were not given information in French (which is their constitutionally guaranteed right). Deaf detainees were not provided with sign language interpretters. Rubber bullets were shot into a peaceful crowd. Journalists and impartial observers were harassed and arrested. Sexist, racist, and homophobic speech and action on the part of the police has been widely reported. People were not provided with any reasonable amount of food or water, and hundreds of peaceful protesters and innocent bystanders were held hostage for four hours in the middle of an intersection in a record-breaking downpour.
Basically business as usual for one of these summits, and since they're were no deaths thankfully (which may have more to do with how peaceful the majority of the protesters were), I'll give the police a C-. They didn't fail in their main goal, but they also assaulted the very rights and laws they're supposed to uphold.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I have to say, I hardly noticed the G20 event. I live in Cabbagetown, and walk all over the area, to Alan Gardens, etc. and didn't see a single protester, was never inconvenienced in usual automobile use, never even saw the security fence. Except for a few additional helicopters, I didn't notice a thing.
Jonny5
Senior Member
I also give an A. EDIT: My scoring is based on injuries to people and property being minimized, deaths being none, and the summit passing without interruption. I don't believe the expression of speech without violent protest is possible at these events anymore, but would give an A+ if it happened.
The biggest problem faced by the police was not the Black Bloc, but the milquetoast protest tourists who had no clue what they were getting into and had their generation Y sense of entitlement telling them they have the right to do anything they want, including getting new facebook profile pics in the middle of violent confrontation. I picture Lisa LaFlamme trapped at Queen and Spadina on Sunday screaming "Do you know who I am?!" Then going live at $1000 a minute salary talking about how horrific an ordeal it was for her.
The weekend anarchists exploited the rest of the protesters for suckers and bolted before the shit hit the fan, leaving them to take the fall. This was tragic for both its occurrence and how predictable it was.
The police conducted themselves admirably on Saturday by protecting the security perimeter and not scattering and chasing down thugs causing trivial property damage along a small section of downtown streets. EDIT: Lessons from Seattle, Pittsburgh and other cities show it is not an effective strategy to break formation. The more dispersed security is, the more property damage occurs.
I am certain there were isolated actions by police that were not appropriate and hope those individuals affected pursue all legal action available.
Overall, I think very few events occurred that would not pass the Oakes test (remember section 1 of the Charter of Rights before you scream about the rest of it).
The most important point now though is that the summit is over. Trying to perpetuate the outrage is not going to fly amongst the 95%+ of the city which was not impacted by the summit in any way and has already stopped caring that it ever happened. Everyone needs to tone down the hysterics if they want to have any credible evaluation of the weekends events to occur. That means protesters not claiming they were brutalized by being denied a second cheese sandwich and CFRB not calling protesters "terrorists". EDIT: For clarification, I heard the CFRB host at about 8pm refer repeatedly to the protesters as terrorists, which I think is despicable.
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toraerach
Active Member
It's not a Generation Y thing, it's a Charter of Rights thing. Although, I suppose, you could argue that Generation Y is the first generation to grow up post-Charter so you may have a point, though maybe not the one you were trying to make.