G-20 Summit in Toronto

[Northern Light]

As I was before, I will be clear in this and say; that:

A) I have no sympathy of any kind for those who were violent, or torched police cars/smashed windows etc.

B) I do have sympathy for police, put in a difficult situation...............

HOWEVER......

I can not give the Toronto force an 'A' or a 'B'.............and based on what we SEEM to be seeing reported......I'm increasingly inclined....to a far worse evaluation.

Example problem 1:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/0...r-husband-calls-incident-an-abusive-of-power/

In this case, it appears, albeit by honest mistake, that policy ILLEGALLY entered a premises without a proper warrant (that's break and enter and trespassing, I believe)............proceeded to point a gun at an unarmed man and his wife, who were sleeping and were not suspects, not named in warrant and obviously not being provocative, (seems like reckless use of a firearm and intimidation).................

And then arrested someone with no warrant or probably cause.............that's kidnapping.

Now I can't attest to the truth the incident, but its been widely reported, and so far as I can tell not disputed by police.

As to my interpretation of the law, I'm not a lawyer, but a read of the Criminal Code would suggest I'm not that far off (try doing the same without a badge and see what you get charged with).

I have to say, this seems fairly disgraceful.

**********

Also disconcerting..............

Via Jim Harris (former leader of the Federal Green Party (and a conservative business person)

Jim Harris
Judy Rebick
on FB: I was on CP 24 at
noon with Bill McCormick, Prez of the Police Assn and he said his
members were under orders not to arrest to black bloc people while they
were breaking windows and setting fire to cars. One commentor on Judy's page: "So the policing strategy was to allow wonton destruction of property to
occur in front of dozens of officers by a handful of violent people."


**********

I am, in general a supporter of police, of peace, order and good government.............but....an awful lot of things this weekend went VERY wrong..............I'm terribly disappointed.

 

[insertrealname]

The results don't justify the means.

If that were the end of the story I'd have given them an A. On Sunday afternoon I was prepared to say similar. But now that evidence of unwarranted police brutality has surfaced, along with the Queen/Spadina incident, and the clear strategy of targeting journalists, then that has diminish their mark. It's a C ... it's still a pass.

You can't give them an A when they are beating people. Those police who committed these crimes, need to be brought to justice, and their employment terminated.

There's a revealing video filmed inside the Queen/Spadina "kettle" that shows some of the "grey areas" in evaluating public and police conduct. It shows the evolution from being quite truculent (much entirely unnecessary swearing at police) to the growing fear of the detained as more of their number are "snatched" in very fast "grabs" by the police (I wish I knew the correct cinematic references to a horror flick wherein the protagonists are surrounded by black monsters and are seized one-by-one with horrifyingly lightning speed tentacles).

If nothing else, it shows the confusion of the front line police trying to make sense of the orders they've been given, as well as some pretty well rehearsed actions. I think the real responsibility for the chaos lies with commanders too far from the action to make sensible decisions on the fragmentary information they received from their front-line people: detaining a large number of people, some of whom appear to have been out and about for things other than demonstrations, in order to fish out 5 or10 potential/actual trouble makers is NOT sensible strategy.

But of course, all this is Monday evening quarter-backing...

P.S. Why is it that so many commentators here have a problem with public displays of dissent, or appear to qualify as "provocative" the simple act of strolling around the downtown area with one's eyes well open for dangers while there are many police around and the possibility of disturbances has led them to recommend cowering in the safety of our homes? Why are we Canadians so docile and unengaged politically, or think of political engagement as somehow a waste of time and effort? (O.K., I better stop, I'm becoming irritated.)

 

[js97]

Well you know, they did. Is that why you gave them an A+?

And remember what happens to basically every person that comes up with any evidence whatsoever that something might have gone wrong? Yeah, "the information is false." I'm not normally one to side with all the conspiracy theorists, but in general cops get off bad actions way too often. Anyone who does come in with a bruised face or broken rib is just gonna be called a hoax and should be ashamed of themselves for trying to smear the good name of the police, yadda yadda yadda.

Bottom line, the police realized that they did something wrong when they didn't come to the city's rescue as people sacked Yonge St. The next day, they drastically overcompensated and clamped down on the city. That's very, very unprofessional when you're trying to keep liberty and peace, and is the kind of thing that you actually see more in police states. Then on top of that, there's general poor planning (on the police's part, we've already established that holding the G20 in the city was a stupid idea.) Poor execution, and what would initially appear to be poor individual police conduct. It's a big event, so they know that whatever wrongs they did will get forgotten in the haze, which I think seems to have given them the same sense of leaping into things headfirst and acting badass as the Black Block guys had, only they can't be charged for it.

It's always funny how people with NO experience in security, whether in policing, private security, military security etc, can make such a blanket statement.

By the photographs/video, there where no police around on yonge street. Are trying to say that the 1 billion spent wasn't enough and we needed to bring in more officers?


People only see what happens but never realise that so much effort is put in for prevention. How do you know they didn't prevent a full on assault on the G 20 fence? HOw embrarrassing, but more importantly, loss of credibility as a nation would that have been?

As Mike in TO accounted, it was a very organized group of 100 people trying to draw the cops away from the fence, with the help of a lot of idiots that think yelling obscenities and trying to entice them in such a pressure filled environment is a good idea.

I don't know why the attention has turned to 'police' instead it should have been on the protestors and the goofs that tried to rip apart our city.

 

[buildup]

The very nature of policing is such that they are going to be perceived as 'wrong' often. Policing happens in conflict environments where even in advance you know one party won't be happy.

As far as I'm concerned if (in a policing situation) if the outcome is less than disastrous then police have done a decent job. Anything above that is commendable.

 

[tkip]

I'm still getting different accounts but while the conduct of the police may have seemed heavyhanded, you have to keep in mind that after what happened on sat, they had their orders to not let this happen again.

 

[js97]

There's a revealing video filmed inside the Queen/Spadina "kettle"

Ha ha..

great video.. everyone is a brave star and mouthy jackass until they get put in 'real' situation.

it is kinda like a horro film, they come out of the gates and get you.

 

[tkip]

It's interesting how much of a spectator sport this all became. Suddenly the fact that American Civil War battles used to attract quite the civilian gawker crowd makes a bit more sense to me.

Good point.

A lot of people went down there expecting a spectator sport and just treated the whole thing like it was a paid-per-view event. Lots of gawking and waiting to take pics.

A lot fo people on the radio talked about this and were not impressed. Somemade a comment about the Generation Y factor and I think it played a part in this. That's all I'm going to say on that matter. As for the cops? I think after what happened on sat, they had their orders to prevent any gathering from exploding into another ugly situation.

How I interpret what happened this weekend. I'm still scratching my head over how the cops never really made it to Yonge though. I guess they were just caught off guard and their orders were for them to wait...

 

[mangasparky]

I witnessed POLICE mob mentality on Saturday at the intersection of University and College and further north in Queens Park. I would say that 95% of the crowd in this area were merely watching the events unfold and were caught up in the excitement. The police were very coordinated with their snatch and grabs, and then with their beating of unarmed people. I saw people get trampled by horses, and I saw a 60 plus year old man get visiously beat to the ground. I saw riot cops laughing and taunting the crowd and pointing out their targets. I have a friend that was snatched, he had his his nose and cheek bone broken because a cop decided to stand on his face for fifteen minutes, he required a CAT SCAN and thankfully he was taken for one, so he could wait in the jail safely for over 24 hours without seeing a judge.

At Queens Park I heard ZERO audible warning or police instruction of what they wanting the crowds to do. There was no communication. A simple statement of intent to arrest played loudly and repeated would have gone a long way to send the alot of those people home.

What happened was an abuse of force and I am distgusted and ashamed of it, I feel like I've been changed for the worse.

 

[tkip]

You know, I have my doubts about the cops laughing and taunting and beating people indiscriminately with so many cameras present. Where's the proof? When shit started happening, the police didn't have time to carefully scan the crowd and rationalize with people.

If you went down there on sat to participate in one of the biggest summit protests that have a very well documented history of violence and still expected nothing to happened, you are just being naive. So many people showed up as close as possible to the protest and waited and wanted something to happen to take pics.

It was a spectator sport for so many. And critizing the conduct of the police? How about the crowd and what so many did from the sidelines?

There are countless accounts of people in the crowds taunting the cops, spitting, mocking and laughing and just generally degrading them while they stood there and took it. It's obvious that the conduct of so many that day in the crowds over the weekend went from questionable to downright disgusting.

 

[Filip]

Ha ha..

great video.. everyone is a brave star and mouthy jackass until they get put in 'real' situation.

it is kinda like a horro film, they come out of the gates and get you.

Hahaha I couldn't stop laughing watching the end of that video. So glad to see these mouthy idiots get their comeuppance.

 

[js97]

Well, I witnessed people spitting on police, yelling profanities, mocking them,

oh almost forgot, I also saw my street being completely destroyed, police cruisers being BURNT, and police running for their lives on queen after beeing swarmed by about fighty thugs dresesd in black..

And guess what I also saw 'peaceful protesters' laugh and get in front of a burning police cruiser to get a 'mug' shot and get their faces on T.V. Chanting and cheering while cop cars burnt... That's changed me forever.

further more, do people not realise protesting leaders of other countries do NOTHING as you do not have the power to remove them from power?



what about this clown?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/829587--the-fire-the-accused-and-the-cop

 

[tkip]

I won't debate on the point of protesting leading to removing leaders from power. We know this will never happen at these kinds of events.

But I'm glad that someone has come forward to tell of what they witnessed with the crowd's behaviour and I believe you were being honest because it's the same story I'm hearing over and over and over again. People really, really acted shamelessly this weekend with the way they conducted themselves and a host of idiots just acted in a fashion that's beyond contempt....

Remember when I talked earlier about people's behaviour being worse these days with the lack of respect, dignity and shame? Remember when people were telling me I didn't know what I was talking about?

 

[Coltaine79]

How I interpret what happened this weekend. I'm still scratching my head over how the cops never really made it to Yonge though. I guess they were just caught off guard and their orders were for them to wait...

I don't hold it against the police for not pursuing the Yonge St. vandals. Pretty sure it was a strategic decision made by Command - they probably were expecting the vandals to use some sort of "draw away, encircle & flank" tactic in order to breach the security fence - remember, if you count from Saturday back 2 weeks the first thing on people's minds was the SECURITY FENCE, civilian and authority alike. Although hopefully they did have some sort of conditional trigger set up, where if the vandals started attacking people, then they would have rapidly deployed their forces. But from what I understand, the vandals never attacked any people, so that scenario never came into play.

Regardless, I do hope that all levels of govt can come together and agree to some sort of financial compensation for affected shop-owners to pay for their repairs and perhaps employees' lost wages.

 

[Peepers]

Ha ha..

great video.. everyone is a brave star and mouthy jackass until they get put in 'real' situation.

it is kinda like a horro film, they come out of the gates and get you.

I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not be disgusted by the action of the cops. For no apparent reason the cops in overwhelming number encircled this group - they then moved in on them shouting MOVE MOVE MOVE. Where were the protesters supposed to go? they were completely encircled. You state that "everyone is a brave star and mouthy jackass until they get put in 'real' situation". This is actually a good description of the coward cops who ran like hell when from their cruisers when they were confronted with overwhelming force. At least these protesters tried to hold their ground.

 

[tkip]

Absolutely, should the shop owners be compensated in all this.

The way this whole thing was forcefed onto this city with the predictable results of mayhem, violence and damaged property is just beyond apologies at the point. This is what prompts me to seriuosly doubt the motives of the current government in power. Harper has a lot to answer for in the next election, in my opinion.

And I'll say it again.

You can critisize the police in all this and try and pin the blame on them, which is scapegoating in my opinion but it ignores the much larger issue of what the hell were people thinking they were doing this weekend with treating the whole protest like it was some of reality show, there for their amusement? There's a big difference between curiousity and what a lot of that crowd did.

This alone shows you that there's something wrong when thousands show up thinking it's some kind of party and you get your kicks taking pics of violence and destruction. There is a huge number of people out there who should be ashamed for how they behaved but instead are laughing and bragging, posting pics on Facebook and patting each other on the back.

And someone made a comment about the "coward cops who ran like hell when from their cruisers when they were confronted with overwhelming force"? This is a joke, right?

Like you would have just stood there, with a couple of other cops, without riot gear and backup and waited for hundreds to descend upon you. I can't think of a more laughable and cowardly statement to make than something like this, from the safety and comfort of your home.

The police officers involved with safeguarding this city over the weekend should get medals for just having the patience alone for dealing with the thousands of idiots that encouraged the vandals and made the entire situation worse.