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Finch West Line 6 LRT

The cost differential is not minor. An LRT would cost at least triple as much. A BRT even with exclusive ROW as planned for Finch just requires the road to be painted and not torn up for tracks and then adding expensive overhead wiring. Also you can`t compare a bus garage to a LRT garage. A bus garage can be used for any bus in the entire system and a new one doesn`t necessarily even have to get built but rather just an expansion of a current one. LRT on the other hand has to have a brand new maintenance/garage station and it can only be used exclusively for Finch. This is one of the reasons why there is such huge pushback in Surrey for it`s LRT...……..it won`t be any faster than a bus, cost a fortune, and have to have an entirely new maintenance/garage facility. This is one of the top issues in the upcoming municipal election and the 2 front running parties are both promising to ditch the LRT for a SkyTrain extension and a BRT corridor.

If the money is there for LRT and any cost savings switching to BRT would not be used to expand the system or buils a RER station, then they might as well go for the current LRT plan. If ML & Ford however give them the option of a larger BRT and a new Woodbine RER/UPX station then they should ditch the LRT ASAP and get far more bang for the buck.
 
ssiguy2 said:
The cost differential is not minor. An LRT would cost at least triple as much. A BRT even with exclusive ROW as planned for Finch just requires the road to be painted and not torn up for tracks and then adding expensive overhead wiring. Also you can`t compare a bus garage to a LRT garage. A bus garage can be used for any bus in the entire system and a new one doesn`t necessarily even have to get built but rather just an expansion of a current one. LRT on the other hand has to have a brand new maintenance/garage station and it can only be used exclusively for Finch. This is one of the reasons why there is such huge pushback in Surrey for it`s LRT...……..it won`t be any faster than a bus, cost a fortune, and have to have an entirely new maintenance/garage facility. This is one of the top issues in the upcoming municipal election and the 2 front running parties are both promising to ditch the LRT for a SkyTrain extension and a BRT corridor.

If the money is there for LRT and any cost savings switching to BRT would not be used to expand the system or buils a RER station, then they might as well go for the current LRT plan. If ML & Ford however give them the option of a larger BRT and a new Woodbine RER/UPX station then they should ditch the LRT ASAP and get far more bang for the buck.
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I think you need to ask why YRT is spending 2 billion on some lame VIVA bus lanes. They don't even have a new garage and barely buying more buses for such a low demand. It'll cost the TTC another half a billion more for another garage plus buses.

Sure it'll be cheaper than LRT but it's not more than triple as cheap. Plus there's no way of stopping people from driving on painted bus lanes if cheaply build curb lanes are used. Especially the congested 400 interchange.
 
rbt said:
Finch LRT is roughly the same price after you drop the 2 underground sections (which would be expensive as bus too), adjust for inflation, and expropriations.

You can halve the price of Finch just by moving the subway and Humber college portions above ground.
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Never understood why it was not an above ground loop.
 
Hopkins123 said:
$259 million = the entirety of the Mississauga Transitway

Food for thought!
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Not even remotely true.

According to this article https://www.mississauga.com/news-st...elays-the-mississauga-transitway-is-complete/ Mississauga's cost for their portion of the Transitway was $328mil - well above your $259mil figure. Add the over $200mil that the Province funded, plus the $83mil that the Feds chipped in, and the total cost of the project was well over $600mil.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Good grief, if we on UT can't resist recycling and redebating done deals, how can we ever expect politicians and planners to stick to a plan.

Finch is a signed, executed, awarded contract - no doubt with penalties for cancellation. Let's keep things moving. It may not be perfect, but it's an opportunity to try and get LRT right.

- Paul
 
smallspy said:
Not even remotely true.

According to this article https://www.mississauga.com/news-st...elays-the-mississauga-transitway-is-complete/ Mississauga's cost for their portion of the Transitway was $328mil - well above your $259mil figure. Add the over $200mil that the Province funded, plus the $83mil that the Feds chipped in, and the total cost of the project was well over $600mil.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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http://www.mississauga.ca/portal/mi...25W2PW0?paf_gear_id=9700018&itemId=102600573n

Even if it went over budget, $600 million is still half what the 11 kilometre LRT on Finch will cost and that's assuming it too won't undergo major cost overruns.
 
crs1026 said:
Good grief, if we on UT can't resist recycling and redebating done deals, how can we ever expect politicians and planners to stick to a plan.

Finch is a signed, executed, awarded contract - no doubt with penalties for cancellation. Let's keep things moving. It may not be perfect, but it's an opportunity to try and get LRT right.

- Paul
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Tell that to the regulars in the SSE thread whom are constantly trying to discredit and actively cancel that line's construction. 20,000 commuters in the Finch corridor are more important than 100,000 in Scarborough apparently.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Never understood why it was not an above ground loop.
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They're double-ended cars so you don't even need a loop, not for 90 second or wider frequencies at least.

I understand why Finch Station is underground; the very high transfer volumes and prospect of putting elevators in the middle of the street make it appealing. The justification for Humber College having an underground station isn't as strong to me; seems like a lot of effort to save a few seconds for Highway 27 commuters.

It's still a 500m surface hike for most Humber College students from the platform to the school buildings. That's not an issue but with the cost of the station you'd expect more integration.

But yeah, in general I think we have a habit of over-building our transit while simultaneously not building nearly enough of it.
 
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Sorry but the conservative leaning crowd here needs to makeup their mind. Are you wanting to splurge on subway as before or do you want to as much money as possible with a BRT? 'Anything but LRT' isn't a logical position.
 
Hopkins123 said:
Tell that to the regulars in the SSE thread whom are constantly trying to discredit and actively cancel that line's construction. 20,000 commuters in the Finch corridor are more important than 100,000 in Scarborough apparently.
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If the facts supported the SSE, particularly switching from the previous plan, and also did not support the Finch LRT, then you might have point.

I'm not going to do it for you, but if you think the facts are on your side then go find what the capacity of an in median BRT line and the expected ridership on Finch, I doubt most reasonable people would come to the conclusion that LRT on Finch is a completely unnecessary.
 
"anything but LRT" isn't MEANT to be a logical solution for building transit, it's a viable way of opposing transit spending in general by attacking any particular project as the wrong one.
 
Bureaucromancer said:
"anything but LRT" isn't MEANT to be a logical solution for building transit, it's a viable way of opposing transit spending in general by attacking any particular project as the wrong one.
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The same group of people were saying this corridor deserves a subway and anything else was a 'war on cars'. Now all of a sudden BRT is a great idea? Give me a break.
 
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