UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
I'm not arguing if they are essential or not.
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Toronto Etobicoke Centre (Housing NOW, ?s, ?)
- Thread starter HousingNowTO
- Start date
This is the one for Kipling.*mods*
The Islington portion of this development already has a thread here:
Islington Station Redevelopment | 7.85m | 1s | TTC | AECOM
https://createto.ca/housingnow/housing/bloor-islington/urbantoronto.ca
I'm not sure if we have a separate one for Kipling.
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AlexBozikovic
Active Member
Unfortunately @ProjectEnd nails it.
This is going to be a magnificent public complex, surrounded by traffic sewers, anemic retail and no public life. This built form and density (plus the likelihood that most residents will drive everywhere) means the place is doomed from the start.
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm not opposed to more height, but other than that............what can be constructively lobbied for here?
I agree the road design to date is..............unfortunate.
But it's unlikely any amount of lobbying will see it ripped up wholesale and road dieted.
That being the case...........how can we make this better?
afransen
Senior Member
Maybe have the built form 'turn its back' metaphorically (or give a cold shoulder) to the traffic gutters and make the interior streets more than mere access roads and make them more pleasant and focus retail uses on that frontage. A bit better placemaking.
AlexBozikovic
Active Member
Double down on the courtyard idea. Maybe like this: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/art...magining-the-condo-and-suburban-main-streets/
Attachments
I don't think there's a chance of getting the roads changed, but I agree that the situation can be improved through how the buildings are massed and what their ground levels are like. In tweets I've advocated for treatment similar to what we're seeing going in at Mirvish Village: a procession of narrow, taller buildings (whether they are actually separate behind different facade treatments or not) and like Alex is suggesting above, which would have activated courtyards / market areas in behind like at Mirvish Village. More density and a built form that doesn't resemble what's going in on Bathurst in Thornhill would be welcome. If this is to be Etobicoke's new City Centre area, it should feel urban!
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allengeorge
Senior Member
Is there any chance CreateTO will change the massing and site plan to build a more urban, walkable space? The suggestions here all sound great…
Northern Light
Superstar
Other CreateTO plans have been modified, typically with a very strong push from @HousingNowTO .
Change here is possible, but there is a narrow window to make it happen.
It will require a concerted effort, messaging to CreateTO; the City Planner on this file; and the area councillors.
UrbanDan
Active Member
I believe that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to build a true urban city center for Etobicoke.
Especially the Kipling site has to have a bolder vision. To be a destination and not just a bedroom community.
More density is needed, better (urban) experience at ground level (better massing/ activated courtyards/ only pedestrian streets or zones), recognizable architecture (from a far), and to be better integrated with it's surroundings (creative ways to overcome barriers such as wide roads and tracks).
I would also like to see at least one well designed taller tower (if shadows are the issue, then at least to have a nicely designed spire) so it can bring neighborhood pride to current and future residents. Also, to redefine this neighborhood as a modern and vibrant part of Toronto.
With the rise of Humber Bay Shores, it looks to me that there might be a bit of identity crisis for this neighborhood. However, if the vision for this site is bold, there are all the right ingredients for Etobicoke center to be a true modern urban success.
Especially the Kipling site has to have a bolder vision. To be a destination and not just a bedroom community.
More density is needed, better (urban) experience at ground level (better massing/ activated courtyards/ only pedestrian streets or zones), recognizable architecture (from a far), and to be better integrated with it's surroundings (creative ways to overcome barriers such as wide roads and tracks).
I would also like to see at least one well designed taller tower (if shadows are the issue, then at least to have a nicely designed spire) so it can bring neighborhood pride to current and future residents. Also, to redefine this neighborhood as a modern and vibrant part of Toronto.
With the rise of Humber Bay Shores, it looks to me that there might be a bit of identity crisis for this neighborhood. However, if the vision for this site is bold, there are all the right ingredients for Etobicoke center to be a true modern urban success.
Amare
Senior Member
Toronto: a city where we under-develop in a designated "city-centre" which is connected by a regional bus terminal, rapid trasit line and commuter rail line. Then follow that up by over-developing and creating an unplanned "city-centre" in an island area with 3 entry/exit points, which will one day be connected by only a commuter rail line.
That's Toronto Urban Planning 101 for you.
That's Toronto Urban Planning 101 for you.
Northern Light
Superstar
True.
I enjoy your posts; but often ride you a bit about the degree of your cynicism.
But here, I can't.
Your point is quite right.
Humber Bay Shores has a mix of architecture; some decent; some......not so much.....
But the area as a whole represents gross over development relative to transit planned or in place.
Supermarkets/food shopping were late to the area; connections across the Gardiner are still wanting (but coming).......
Based on the profound volumes of people I've encountered, the area is also genuinely under-parked (meaning too little park space relative to demand/population).
On balance, not good planning.
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While Etobicoke's would-be downtown, sitting immediately adjacent to a subway station, regional bus terminal and GO station has overly wide roads and is somewhat density-light.
Tough not to feel a bit down when one sees that juxtaposition.
HousingNowTO
Senior Member
At Toronto City Hall --- a "Cynic" is just "an Optimist with Experience"...
Northern Light
Superstar
CreateTO seems ready to move on this proposal now...........
In a report to their May 11th meeting, found here:
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In a report to their May 11th meeting, found here:
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Amare
Senior Member
That you do, not that I mind it at all. We often share similar points of view, just expressed in different ways.
Dont get me wrong this is not the worst outcome for Etobicoke City Centre (we're seeing much worse just down the street with Pinnacle Etobicoke's proposal), but this is not ideal at all.
Humber Bay Shores on the other hand. That's an area whos issues I can go on about for weeks; you've touched on the very surface level of those issues.