News   Jan 22, 2021
 593     0 
News   Jan 22, 2021
 342     0 
News   Jan 22, 2021
 861     3 

Eglinton East LRT | Metrolinx

allengeorge

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
337
Reaction score
663
Honestly, I find conversations about transit in Scarborough exhausting. I think one (or more) of these points can be true:
  • Painting a lane red doesn't make EE a BRT.
  • Painting a lane red and leaving service the same doesn't make EE a BRT.
  • The red painting isn't the end of the story, so let's give it a chance and learn from it.
  • Eglinton East really deserves a properly implemented transit system with a dedicated ROW.
  • The Scarborough subway represents poor value for money and will 'lose' money per passenger.
  • The Scarborough subway is really expensive for what it actually does.
  • The Scarborough subway actually provides a better experience for a large subset of existing commuters.
  • There were alternate options to the subway that would have increased the number of people who would have been served by transit. Maybe even generating new commuters.
  • These alternate options to the subway would have also opened up the possibility of local trips more effectively than the subway.
  • The built form (low density) of Scarborough makes it hard to deliver rapid transit cheaply and effectively.
  • The Scarborough subway debate was exhausting, sucked out the air from any other transit debate in the city, and left proponents on both sides bitter.
I think what tends to happen is that person A values one point very highly, while person B values another point very highly and both sides end up talking past each other.

At any rate, when it comes to this EE implementation, I:
  1. Agree that painting a lane red without changing anything else is kinda useless.
  2. Wish that we had a dedicated ROW with increased service.
  3. BUT, hope that it does show us some lessons and improvements.
  4. AND, I hold out hope that the TTC/Transportation will try to learn from this.
  5. Think councillors in Scarborough have to build a coalition and make the case for building an effective EE rapid transit system with a dedicated ROW and propose options to make this more interesting, like...committing to dramatically increase density along the corridor, including changing zoning.
 
Last edited:

Steve X

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
1,947
Reaction score
1,318
People here were screaming subway because we had a disconnected LRT design to replace the RT along with an added transfer being placed on Sheppard LRT extension which disconnected the Centre at both ends. Absurd planning. Further there was no subway proposed for Eglinton East at that time or any time, so that wonderful scenario you speak of was never tabled to the residents, ever.

Comparing the politics of supporting detailed transit for anything to or near York region to the corner cutting politics in the City of Toronto as it relates to Scarborough is also beyond disingenuous. Anyhow this current paint job were seeing on Kingston rd. & Eglinton ave. east today is yet again another planning joke, but just like the other piss poor plans of the past I can already see residents who live here are expected to not question it. Cant wait for the media to get involved again to tell us the paint is 'expert' driven and 'evidence-based'.
Honestly I don't know why you are so pissed off of bus lanes. I would love some bus lanes for my route. I agree Eg East serves a different part of Scarborough than the Scarborough subway and the two shouldn't be mixed. Ford isn't a fan of on street LRT and has put it on the backburner. Hopefully they'll be about to get the LRT going in the near future.

NYC has painted many roads for their Select Bus Service and Vancouver has recently done the same with converting B-Lines to RapidBus line.
Other cities have done it. This was meant to improve bus service within a few months, not a decade later. I don't see why the public transit users should be upset.
 

sixrings

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
4,483
Reaction score
1,663
For years I was under the impression that a subway extension would make Scarborough residents feel respected and connected. Infant I had heard that they would gladly live with buses elsewhere if they just had one subway. Then I realized how easily people forget things they said and at the same time how fast they are to move the proverbial goal post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: syn

Rainforest

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,376
Reaction score
1,939
Noone ever said that the subway will be the final transit project Scarborough needs. The subway is the essential trunk line, which needs to be complemented by good feeder lines.
 

Isotack

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
209
Reaction score
221
Is it better?

Again I ride much of the entire route weekly and can assure you this is all a poltical sham.

The issue along this corridor with frequency is signal priority and Kennedy station Crosstown construction. The previous HOV style lane was no even an issue. It truly wasn't.

So we are reducing a vehicle lane slightly increasing congestion, making turning more challenging,for what? Not even providing a more effecient public transit option for those impacted or current riders. The optical power of red paint and photo opps is real.

This is beyond irresponsible in terms of planning.

And i have little doubt like all plans the data will be presented in a better light then reality with a narrow lens not looking at all impacts.

Surely this won't end well seeing as we are tunnelling an LRT in the West end. Shameful
 

syn

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
4,742
Reaction score
2,598
For years I was under the impression that a subway extension would make Scarborough residents feel respected and connected. Infant I had heard that they would gladly live with buses elsewhere if they just had one subway. Then I realized how easily people forget things they said and at the same time how fast they are to move the proverbial goal post.

I'm not sure what people expected. There isn't an unlimited budget for Scarborough transit.

There's no money left for an Eglinton East LRT or more subways.
 

Rainforest

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,376
Reaction score
1,939
There is no transit budget for Scarborough alone. Loosely there is a budget for the Toronto municipality / the 416 area, including Scarborough.

The province could reasonably build SSE + Eg West LRT + Eg East LRT, the latter two mostly on surface, within the budget already allocated. Instead, it decided to tunnel Eg West and ignore Eg East.
 

OneCity

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
1,849
Reaction score
764
There is no transit budget for Scarborough alone. Loosely there is a budget for the Toronto municipality / the 416 area, including Scarborough.

The province could reasonably build SSE + Eg West LRT + Eg East LRT, the latter two mostly on surface, within the budget already allocated. Instead, it decided to tunnel Eg West and ignore Eg East.


Wait, the Province is moving forward with these subways with no City funds. Which was also likely a politically strategic move to give the City the option to fund the EELRT with the SSE transit levy, knowing how they historically choose to fumble the ball and cut corners in Scarborough. And sure enough Council couldn't take the EELRT away fast enough.

Certainly I would wish the Province would pay for everything, but non-grade separated transit isnt their objective for good reasons (method debatable) and they gave the City the chance to show its 'priority' colours as it relates to Scarborough EELRT. Not the greatest designed LRT as it stood but that would be the bottom right? Not when council can pull this red paint stunt on City specified 'priority' residents. Not even a BRT, not even a proper cycle lane for us? Good lord. This is exactly why Ford wins easily here because Council continuously refuses to plan fairly or effectively as it relates to Scarborough.

This nonsense should kickstart the conversation again and the City has no one to blame but itself if the political fallout costs us all focus, time and money once again.
 
Last edited:

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
6,577
Reaction score
8,538
Wait, the Province is moving forward with these subways with no City funds. Which was also likely a politically strategic move to give the City the option to fund the EELRT with the SSE transit levy, knowing how they historically choose to fumble the ball and cut corners in Scarborough. And sure enough Council couldn't take the EELRT away fast enough.

Good grief. Orwell would be impressed with this spin. It is completely the reverse of the truth.

The Province moved ahead with the four subway projects to neutralise and prevent City level transit planning, not to empower it.

The Province (well, the Ford government, let's call it what it is) knew that the City is unable to advance transit without funding assistance from the Province. And they recognized that TTC level and City Council level planning would always be in conflict with their political agenda - not because it was biased around one part of the city, but because it applied methods and paradigms that were guaranteed to produce plans that the Province, er, Ford, couldn't live with. Like surface transit. Like retaining the streetcar network. Like buses impeding motorists. Meanwhile, Metrolinx and the Transit Ministry were looking to assemble turf. And the Province figured, like every other politician, that they knew better and had a nicer napkin to plan on. And if they were going to pay anyways, why not take the wheel?

I am a strong supporter of the EELRT, because it is needed and it's a proper, prudently scaled solution for the density and ridership. The facts support it. But really..... this fantasy narrative that always leads back to declaring grievances over City decisionmaking is really tired. There is little rationality remaining in transit plans in this City, but at least every part of the city is getting shafted one way or the other. We're all in the same boat.

And, no Ford ever actually cared about the common guy...... ask Hamilton about that.

- Paul
 

sixrings

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
4,483
Reaction score
1,663
There is no transit budget for Scarborough alone. Loosely there is a budget for the Toronto municipality / the 416 area, including Scarborough.

The province could reasonably build SSE + Eg West LRT + Eg East LRT, the latter two mostly on surface, within the budget already allocated. Instead, it decided to tunnel Eg West and ignore Eg East.
Doesn't the good people of etobicoke deserve a subway? The east in relatively recent years got Sheppard east, soon a Ontario line and a danforth extension and you're upset that Eglinton west wants a subway.

This is all sarcasm of course but this is what happens when you vote for someone who advocates subway subway subway.. You're either going to be really over the top lucky or completely in the poor house.

For all the "Scarborough deserves a subway talk" Scarborough is getting exactly what it "deserves" for falling for this ford nation nonsense about being for the little people.
 

afransen

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
3,353
Reaction score
1,416
It is fantasy map transit planning, but what if SRT was replaced with modernized SkyTrain technology and extended up to Sheppard and reuse the subway tunnels to Yonge. Complete the orphaned Line 4 much more cost effectively (subway will never be extended to STC) and leave the existing transfer to Line 2. I don't think Toronto has given the technology a fair shake and Vancouver has shown that it can be used quite successfully above grade in places that look a lot like the Toronto suburbs. If we are going to have these battles about grade separation, not taking away traffic lanes, and tunnelling, maybe the suburban LRTs should really be SkyTrains.
 

JSF-1

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
474
Reaction score
773
Location
Woburn
It is fantasy map transit planning, but what if SRT was replaced with modernized SkyTrain technology and extended up to Sheppard and reuse the subway tunnels to Yonge. Complete the orphaned Line 4 much more cost effectively (subway will never be extended to STC) and leave the existing transfer to Line 2. I don't think Toronto has given the technology a fair shake and Vancouver has shown that it can be used quite successfully above grade in places that look a lot like the Toronto suburbs. If we are going to have these battles about grade separation, not taking away traffic lanes, and tunnelling, maybe the suburban LRTs should really be SkyTrains.
Because the fundamental problem with the SkyTrain is its LIM propulsion. LIM systems are damn near useless in the winter since it only takes a thin layer of ice build up on the magnet rail to knock a system (or that section of track) down. and in the case of the SRT since the line only has turnbacks at the ends it is a full line shut-down when ice buildup occurs. In places like Vancouver where winters are mild and snow is rare these LIM based systems are fine, but here they can be a real headache unless you go through the cost of putting the entire line underground. As well the main benefit of LIM is its grade climbing abilities so unless you are building a line that has to scale some steep grades you can get the same performance out of standard traction powered trains.
 

afransen

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
3,353
Reaction score
1,416
I keep hearing that Vancouver winters are mild and they don't get much snow. It seems whenever I go there in winter for work there is a storm as I'm flying in and as I'm flying out. More than a couple times there was more snow there than in Toronto.
 

Top