Someone of reddit made a fair point. If the current projections suggest the subway does not need to be built, but the subway *is* going to be built for political reasons, then.... just change the projections. Design an urban plan that will - medium to longterm - justify the subway. Do whatever you can to encourage growth along the corridor. aPartner with a developer, cut taxes, whatever. Yes the subway will still be expensive but t least then it will be used.
The ridership estimations are not gospel; they're estimations, based largely on how the planners thought the area would grow over time. If we don't like those estimations, we have the power to make reality be different.
I suppose thats a bit naive in the sense that developers still might shun the area, but to date I don't think the city has ever put forth a comprehensive master plan for the STC, in particular one that emphasizes aggressive growth?
Unfortunately things aren't that simple. If they were, we could simply build anything anywhere, and everything would work out.
Designing an urban plan is great, but the plan itself has to be built on some sort of rational model. Will developers actually want to build? Will the market allow for construction within the plan's timeline?
The Sheppard Line was constructed with the idea that a rash of development would take place, and it simply hasn't happened - certainly not anywhere near the degree which would justify a subway in that location.
Unfortunately the nature of the extension (1 stop, over 6km from the nearest subway station) does not offer the same kind of incentive a series of stops would.
I don’t understand how the argument “let’s stop talking and just build it” trumps “hey maybe this is a stupid use of extremely limited precious infrastructure funds. so let’s not build it at all”.
??????
Since when did expediency beat out rationality in our democracy?
All parties now believe that?
So we just build whatever, and limit rationality, just because some political actor deems it so?
None of us should ever criticize the ridiculous political atmosphere in the USA or anywhere else. We are JUST AS BAD if we allow our politicians to do this to us. Throw ALL the bums out.
I would rather talk about this line for another ten years rather than waste public dollars in building it.
There was a plan in place nearly a decade ago, fully funded and supported. It would be done by now if there was no interference and identity politics. Subway supporters seem to have had no problem with
that plan going off the rails. I don't recall any "
hey let's just get this done" comments.
Scarborough has been plagued by poor planning decisions for decades. Like Mississauga, it was content to develop as an auto oriented suburb, and built it's mall (oops, I mean "City Centre") exactly where one would expect.
The difference between Mississauga and Scarborough is that Mississauga has to embrace sensible solutions because it's an independent city. They have to build an LRT up Hurontario because there isn't the demand for a subway, nor can they afford to build one when it doesn't make sense. The same goes for a subway extension from Kipling to Square One - sure it would be nice, but financially it wouldn't make sense for the city.
Scarborough doesn't have to worry about that since the rest of Toronto has to pick up the tab for whatever poor decisions are made. Ford realized this and was smart enough to use identity politics to buy votes with the Toronto credit card. Tory is doing the same. What will happen if it's built? People will face the reality that nothing has really improved, inter-Scarborough transit has gotten worse, and then they'll be demanding more transit, wondering why billions were spent on a foolish 6km+ extension. Scarborough supported Ford, an international embarrassment, and has no problem following it up with a project that's
already receiving international attention for it's idiocy. People haven't seemed to learn there's always a price to pay for bad planning decisions.
I wouldn't make much of Howarth stating she'll leave the Scarborough Subway as is. No one will touch it at this point, as it's not worth challenging given Ford's presence. We all seem to be forgetting the elephant in the room (or the most recent elephant to enter the room) - the updated cost, which Tory refuses to reveal before the election. If there's another massive price increase after the election, I don't think there's any doubt it will re-evaluated by an NDP or Liberal government. Hopefully Maltow continues his efforts to ensure democracy is carried out properly.
