Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

I actually support a three stop elevated/cut and cover Scarborough subway. But my point is that the transfer really isn't as arduous as some people claim.

The proposed LRT transfer itself would not have been bad as far as transferring goes. The transfer location was completely unreasonable in the overall plan for both commuters and for developing of the Centre. Even More unreasonable since we were to be upgrading the line and had the opportunity to see it easily removed by designing the LRT seamless from the start.

I can see the benefits for other options then the 3 stop subway but have little sympathy for the LRT only crowd that didnt understand the heavy benefits of shifting the transfer location and how easy it would have been to do from the start of the upgrade.

 

[nfitz]

...for the LRT only crowd that didnt understand the heavy benefits of shifting the transfer location and how easy it would have been to do from the start of the upgrade.

What LRT-only crowd? I've never seen anyone claim that we should only have LRTs, and only hear "LRT only" from those that appear to oppose LRTs in almost every location. How is this not a straw man argument?

Also which LRT proposal this century didn't include shifting the transfer location? I don't think there's been an LRT proposal using the current elevated location in decades.

 

[syn]

What LRT-only crowd? I've never seen anyone claim that we should only have LRTs, and only hear "LRT only" from those that appear to oppose LRTs in almost every location. How is this not a straw man argument?

Also which LRT proposal this century didn't include shifting the transfer location? I don't think there's been an LRT proposal using the current elevated location in decades.

There is no 'LRT only' crowd. It's completely made up by coffey1.

 

[pstogios]

There is no LRT only crowd. It's completely made up by coffey1.

Just like pretty much all his other arguments.
“major growth node”
“RT is nonsense”
“downtown left”
“downtown media”
This is some serious fake news, folks.

 

[OneCity]

Also which LRT proposal this century didn't include shifting the transfer location? I don't think there's been an LRT proposal using the current elevated location in decades.

You misunderstood. I meant shifting the transfer to the City Centre. The location of the transfer in the greater geographical landscape was the issue i was referring too

There is no 'LRT only' crowd. It's completely made up by coffey1.

'Poorly designed LRT' crowd is a more appropriate term and there are certainly still a few of them rooting around on council who fought till the end for the streetcar style LRT and poor transfer locations not only on this line but introducing a new one on Sheppard.

Maybe in your world the last decade of City of Toronto transit politics based around much of this is all made up too? Thankfully this unfortunate and uncompromising ignorance from these politicians will not matter any more.

 

[Rainforest]

I've never seen anyone claim that we should only have LRTs, and only hear "LRT only" from those that appear to oppose LRTs in almost every location. How is this not a straw man argument?

It is pretty hard to find people around here, who "oppose LRTs in almost every location". Perhaps those are the straw men ..

Most of discussions here are about the subway vs LRT vs BRT choices in a particular corridor, or about the degrees of grade separation, or construction methods (tunneling vs cut-n-cover etc).

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123578926171713536

 

[pstogios]

You misunderstood. I meant shifting the transfer to the City Centre. The location of the transfer in the greater geographical landscape was the issue i was referring too



'Poorly designed LRT' crowd is a more appropriate term and there are certainly still a few of them rooting around on council who fought till the end for the streetcar style LRT and poor transfer locations not only on this line but introducing a new one on Sheppard.

Maybe in your world the last decade of City of Toronto transit politics based around much of this is all made up too? Thankfully this unfortunate and uncompromising ignorance from these politicians will not matter any more.

More fake news - “streetcar style LRT”.
Not only is this logically inconsistent (for the 1029385th time - LRTs ARE NOT streetcars), but also it is patently FALSE that ANYONE fought for streetcars in Scarborough.

Get off the Rob Ford crack cocaine bro.

 

[Rainforest]

Statement "streetcar style LRT" does not imply that LRTs are streetcars, i.e. have all their features common with streetcars.

The aforementioned statement points to some common features between streetcars and the majority of Transit City light rail lines, such as being at the street level, partly interacting with the general traffic, and having relatively close stop spacing.

 

[OneCity]

Statement "streetcar style LRT" does not imply that LRTs are streetcars, i.e. have all their features common with streetcars.

The aforementioned statement points to some common features between streetcars and the majority of Transit City light rail lines, such as being at the street level, partly interacting with the general traffic, and having relatively close stop spacing.

Transit City:

-Added an extra transfer on Sheppard in addition to the one already misplaced before the Centre with the RT. They were seriously going to introduce a new transfer for commuters going to a subway stub when building a brand new line .

-SMLRT "streetcar style LRT" removed vehicle lanes on two major arterial roadways, had close stops, no grade separation, forced longer than current walks into the middle of intersection to board.

The EELRT atleast improved on some key grade separations and with the subway(s) now moving full Core to Core this line can be a nice addition to help spur sprucing up parts in the East end. Unlike some on this site who mock I actually take this exact bus route (mostly express) 2-3 days a week and aside from poor bus frequencies at times its good and the LRT is a moderate local travel upgrade for such a drastic change to the still necessary vehicle travel on main arteries.

Its take n too long but Im just thankful to finally see better connections with both subway lines with less transfers for actual riders here on/feeding into Lawrence and Sheppard and help the connected Centre grow. These are very important details that could have been achieved far differently from the start or atleast when called out after but City council was a polarized dumpster fire post David Miller.

Some here can continue to mock all they will but this was a blanket plan short on various key details within and lacked serious consideration of all modes of transit. There is very good LRT design and there is this Transit City crap you can call whatever you want.

 

[nfitz]

Its take n too long but Im just thankful to finally see better connections with both subway lines ..

How have you seen this? Our incompetent Premier just deferred any Scarborough subway up to 4 more years, and put it behind the DRL and Richmond Hill lines in priority. And a connection to the second subway line - that could be decades away still.

A great man once said transit delayed is transit denied.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Statement "streetcar style LRT" does not imply that LRTs are streetcars, i.e. have all their features common with streetcars.

The aforementioned statement points to some common features between streetcars and the majority of Transit City light rail lines, such as being at the street level, partly interacting with the general traffic, and having relatively close stop spacing.

It's a deliberate attempt to confuse. In all honesty there is little difference. The 501 and 512 count as LRT in different parts. 510 and 509 as well

 

[Rainforest]

It's a deliberate attempt to confuse. In all honesty there is little difference. The 501 and 512 count as LRT in different parts. 510 and 509 as well

I'd say, there is a continuum of options. At the bottom of the food chain are routes like 505 Dundas and 506 College; no grade separation at all. The 514 King is a notch higher, having partly protected lanes in the middle. Then, 512/510/509, running totally in dedicated lanes, but with close stop spacing.

Then, lines like Finch West, and the proposed Eglinton East; dedicated on-street lanes and medium stop spacing. And then the top ladder, lines like ECLRT or Edmonton LRT, with large off-street segments and wide stop spacing.

 

[Rainforest]

A great man once said transit delayed is transit denied.

That's a catchy phrase, but in reality some transit is always delayed. Transit expansion plans are always bigger than the ability to pay for them; someone in charge has to decide what gets a green light and what has to wait.

We can't pretend that the new massive funding commitments for the Relief Line and for Yonge North won't cause delays for some of the smaller projects. Eglinton East, Sheppard, and any attempts to extend the Finch LRT beyond the original Keele - Humber College segment, will have to wait until the payments for RL and Yonge North are settled.

 

[OneCity]

How have you seen this? Our incompetent Premier just deferred any Scarborough subway up to 4 more years, and put it behind the DRL and Richmond Hill lines in priority. And a connection to the second subway line - that could be decades away still.

A great man once said transit delayed is transit denied.

Lets keep in mind the City was seriously designing a subway without stops with a questionable opening date of 2026 and the Provincial Liberals were mum. Delaying 3-4 years to build a proper line is unfortunate but hardly a concern here compared to the latter. Its great news after witnessing real incompetence the last couple decades.

The relief line is another topic. But I also dont see doom and gloom, quite opposite.

Whether you despise the Premier or not the good news is the ground work being laid to design and finance supportable, functional lines will be in place for any other party should this government be kicked out due to "incompetence" in the next term or beyond.