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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

salsa said:
An analysis of the behind the scenes political maneuvering that resulted in the new transit plan for Scarborough:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/01/24/a-game-changing-week-for-john-tory-analysis.html
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The ailing Rob Ford waited a day before his office offered an uncharacteristically wordy criticism of Tory’s Scarborough switch. Doug, who lost to Tory last year, called a radio show to thunder: “This is disgusting. It’s a dog’s breakfast!”
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I can't describe with words how much I detest Doug and Rob ford, or as I like to call them Harry and Lloyd. They spew so much nonsensical rhetoric it makes me furious. They care not one iota about the people or the city. All they care about is grabbing power. And the sad thing is, many people in Scarborough have fallen for the 'subway, subway subway!' nonsense. Nobody asks if it actually makes sense, or even better, who is going to pay for it. Sigh...

Tory says the barrage of big changes was mostly coincidental, but all of it shows the natural evolution of a leader who values expert opinion, evidence-based decision-making and an eagerness to broker consensus.
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What a novel concept. Listening to the people that are paid to know, and using evidence and data to make decisions instead of emotion. Toronto has been waiting a long time for a leader like Tory.
 
While I disagree with the priority it is being given, I actually like this plan. Scarborough town centre as a growth hub justifies this single station extension and making it a terminus for Line 2 on the subway network makes a lot of sense. I disagree with spending this amount of money on this line now when it should be going to our transit system's identified #1 priority — the Relief Line.

I'd like to see Council support this subway extension but put it on a funding/build schedule after the Relief Line and the Eglinton Crosstown extension to Scarborough's UofT campus.

The Scarborough LRT will satisfy the demand for transit when the RT is decommissioned and it can be built fairly quickly. The subway extension to STC can wait. Allocate those $2B towards the Relief Line and once that's funded, then start looking to fund the subway to STC.
 
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ILuvTO said:
And the sad thing is, many people in Scarborough have fallen for the 'subway, subway subway!' nonsense. Nobody asks if it actually makes sense, or even better, who is going to pay for it. Sigh...
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The polarization was a direct reflection of frustrations from the people of suburban Toronto & they voted for the only Mayor who acknowledged the ongoing Political neglect at the time. This week the "subways, subways, subways" Politics may have paid off for Scarborough. Politicians are not a direct reflection of the citizens but there is certainly a reason certain Mayors get voted in.

Rob Ford was a nut. No denying that whatsoever but his crazy politics is what got us to last weeks plan & he saved Scarborough from a legacy of a hacked in Sheppard LRT connecting to a stubway. Also If it wasn't for Ford Scarborough wouldn't have the FUNDING in place for today's transit plan.

ILuvTO said:
What a novel concept. Listening to the people that are paid to know, and using evidence and data to make decisions instead of emotion. Toronto has been waiting a long time for a leader like Tory.
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If Tory keeps this path he will go down as the best Mayor in Toronto's history. He seems to have brought some much needed unity from the time he got into office & has been pushed over by the Left liberal machine & has stayed away from the divisive tactics used by Ford to try to bring some respect to Toronto's suburbs. In addition he has been mindful of future growth from the core out to the 905.

When the evidence, data & funding are Politically skewed you get heavy emotions & polarizing politics. Politicians will always tamper with evidence and data but it much less one sided under Tory.

Thank God. Let's build this great City together
 
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I seen Tory in person many times, before and after getting elected, and he has always struck me as a man that quietly listens to many, and comes to his own decision with input of the professionals. He is far from the likes of Ford who just goes LALALALALA when a bureaucrat is speaking to him, but hes not a puppet for them either.

One spot that surprised me to see him was a talk by Jarrett Walker about his version of "human transit". This was shortly before Tory announced his candidacy for mayor, and appeared that he was there in interest only. He sat in the back of the room and watched quietly, seeming to really absorb and think about what Walker was saying. I have to admit, seeing him there was a big factor in me voting for him in 2014. I wasn't a fan of a lot of the policies on his platform, but politics is messy, and I felt more confident he could cut through it more fairly than Chow could have.
 
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Good plan overall. However, I expect them to re-examine alternative routes for the subway, in particular the Brimley route.

The Brimley route has been rejected because:
- It is not cheaper than McCowan route if the line goes all the way to Sheppard.
- It is difficult to add density around the station built at the Brimley / Lawrence intersection because of the hydro corridor.

But now the context is changing:

- If the line terminates at STC, i.e. 400 m west of McCowan, then the McCowan route involves backtracking. The Brimley route does not need to backtrack, thus it will be shorter and hopefully cheaper.

- If they are not going to build a station at Lawrence anyway, then the point about density is mute. They can skip the Lawrence station just as easily on the Brimley route as on the McCowan route, and at least save on the length of tunnel.

[Or, perhaps they can re-zone for higher density a section of Brimley south of Lawrence, and a section of Lawrence east of Brimley; that will make a station in the area justifiable, and it can be built using funds saved due to a shorter tunnel.]
 
innsertnamehere said:
I seen Tory in person many times, before and after getting elected, and he has always struck me as a man that quietly listens to many, and comes to his own decision with input of the professionals. He is far from the likes of Ford who just goes LALALALALA when a bureaucrat is speaking to him, but hes not a puppet for them either.

One spot that surprised me to see him was a talk by Jarrett Walker about his version of "human transit". This was shortly before Tory announced his candidacy for mayor, and appeared that he was there in interest only. He sat in the back of the room and watched quietly, seeming to really absorb and think about what Walker was saying. I have to admit, seeing him there was a big factor in me voting for him in 2014. I wasn't a fan of a lot of the policies on his platform, but politics is messy, and I felt more confident he could cut through it more fairly than Chow could have.
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During that talk Jarrett Walker emphasized continuous grid networks and specifically mentioned he'd like to see Eglinton Crosstown extended. Looks like Tory took that advice.
 
nfitz said:
There were 2 documents released this week - both are on the city's Scarborough Subway Extension site - http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=804037e5463fa410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD there's a
(oddly, only the report can be found on the project website: http://www.scarboroughsubwayextension.ca/

However, if you go back to older work on the project website http://www.scarboroughsubwayextension.ca/project-materials.html and look at the Phase 2 presentation from May-July 2015, in the slides it has the relative costs of the various alignments. Midland/McCowan is $100-$130 million lower.

View attachment 64780

Tory understanding is generally shallow. However, so is his commitment, and one of his strengths is he'll listen to the smart people around him. The trick is to make sure the right people are around him. Fortunately under Ford the city hired an excellent planner.
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And I suppose you are the opposite of Tory's shallowness? How you can purport to know anything about Tory is unreal. When I read the way people talk on here about Tory and before even Ford, as if there are walking right beside them 24hrs a day and know their every thoughts and views and what they really mean when they say things, etc,e is unreal
 
ehlow said:
During that talk Jarrett Walker emphasized continuous grid networks and specifically mentioned he'd like to see Eglinton Crosstown extended. Looks like Tory took that advice.
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Yup. Walker is not a fan of our bus system terminating routes at Yonge Street. An interesting outside perspective on something that us Torontonians take as innate.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I wasn't a fan of a lot of the policies on his platform, but politics is messy, and I felt more confident he could cut through it more fairly than Chow could have.
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A huge part of why I voted for him. Sure, there's still issues with Smart Track. And it may not pan out. But Tory, at least seems to understand the frustrations that suburban folks have with transit. Chow just seems to have bought the argument that suburban residents don't know squat and that therefore they should just accept LRT. Zero interest at all, in modifying the plan. Back to Transit City and that's it. She was the Anti-Ford.

What frustrates me about the left in this city, is their utter contempt for suburbanites. They don't understand their frustration with transit and traffic. Nor do they even want to hear those arguments. They automatically assume that all those suburbanites vote/voted for Ford because they support "subways, subways, subways" and that they want subways because it interferes with car use.....because that's what Rob Ford said about subways. And therefore, the people who vote for him, must absolutely endorse that view. Talk about misreading voters.... And most shocking, is the zero interest in understanding their frustration or attempts to address them and sway them away from the right. Just write them off.

The right on the other hand. Full of populist demagogues like the Fords who have zero interest in actually accomplishing anything other than being popular and in power. Look at Dougie, still out talking about fairness (or lack thereof) with the stops cut in the SSE in Tory's plan.

Tory was the only candidate who seemed the least bit amenable to compromise and to at least addressing some suburban concerns. If he delivers on this extension, the Ford's are finished for good.
 
Since this announcement was made I've had a chance to talk to some friends that live in Scarborough. Some happy, some not so much with this news. The unhappy ones have said the following:

"All money should go to subways"
"LRT is crap"
"The Eglinton LRT will be St. Clair all over again"
"LRT tracks will freeze in the winter"
"LRT's have no heat"
"The Eglinton LRT was buried in the North York section because of a conspiracy against Scarborough"
"LRT is slower than the subway"
"Eglinton is already a mess, reducing it to two lanes will make it worse"

And on and on. Makes me want to bang my head against a wall. I hope these folks are a small minority.
 
I'd like to see Council support this subway extension but put it on a funding/build schedule after the Relief Line and the Eglinton Crosstown extension to Scarborough's UofT campus.

The Scarborough LRT will satisfy the demand for transit when the RT is decommissioned and it can be built fairly quickly. The subway extension to STC can wait. Allocate those $2B towards the Relief Line and once that's funded, then start looking to fund the subway to STC.[/QUOTE]

I disagree.

The inner city is already getting a new subway line {ST} which will improve the situation immensely. The SRT has to get replaced soon or the city will face a big bill to redo the tracks and rebuild the aging trains only to have the line dismantled a few years later.

They need to get the Danforth to STC so they can take down the SRT before it has to undergo costly repairs. They also need the SRT down in order to create enough space for a further Northbound ST subway to Markham. It would be more cost effective if they could do the same at the same time as the current GO corridor could also be electrified at the same time.

Even with the ST subway the DRL is needed down Queen {not King} and should still go forward but Scarberians do have a very legitimate beef about their transit and to ask them to wait after the inner city gets it's 2 new subway lines completed before it's needed RT replacement is a bit much to say nothing of the fact that it would be politically impossible.

If Tory was to instead use those saved moneys for a DRL at the expense of the STC subway ext then the entire plan would fall thru.

The feds and Queen's Park also want some political mileage out of their contributions and they will get much ore from the current proposal then a relatively small DRL

Toronto should still go ahead with planning for the DRL and get the route, stations, consultations, and environmental reviews all done so when money comes available they could get shovels in the ground but right now this is a package deal and it's a damn good.
 
This should not just be viewed as a compromise deal trying to make the best out of a bad situation. This is, in every respect, a vastly superior plan for the entire city that has been proposed in decades.

This is an EXCELLENT transit plan and Tory should be rightfully proud of himself for helping bring it together. Tory's consensus building will serve the city well. After the divisive Ford, Tory is very much the right mayor at the right time.
 
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