Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[micheal_can]

Nobody has "LRT dreams" -- those people that support LRT (irrrspective of which area of the city) listen to the evidence that shows ridership warrants this type of mass transit and nothing higher order than that.

Anything higher order than LRT in an area whose established ridership doesn't support that higher order, would be a massive waste limited and precious taxpayer's money (see--SSE one-stop subway).

On the other hand, people do have "Subway dreams", but we all know those people have major psychological issues.

Name me one place that the subway goes that it shouldn't?

Even the Stubway still has seen growth. It is an unfinished line. If it were connected to Downsview, STC and the future DRL, it will provide a much needed link at the top of the city.

 

[syn]

Name me one place that the subway goes that it shouldn't?

Even the Stubway still has seen growth. It is an unfinished line. If it were connected to Downsview, STC and the future DRL, it will provide a much needed link at the top of the city.

I think the Sheppard Line still runs at a deficit, 15 years after it opened. The massive development boom everyone expected hasn't really occurred.

It shouldn't have been built.

 

[syn]

Scarborough people just want transfer free ride to Scarborough town center. Is it so much to ask for?

The $5 billion for a 6km tunnel is just the result of downtown people opposed to any improvements to the whole 'Scarborough transit' project having voted down things such as adding a stop for the Lawrence station.

In the end, a subway station at STC is still better than any amount of LRTs.

Yes, it is.

I don't see residents of Yonge/Eglinton complaining about having to transfer to the Bloor Line.

This extension isn't an improvement to 'the whole of Scarborough transit' - it's just the opposite. It's great for people who need to go straight to STC, many of whom I'm sure parked and don't actually live in the area.

A network of density-appropriate LRTs would be a huge boon to the area.

Instead let's waste $5 billion because a certain group of people are too lazy to make a transfer.

It's amazing this is what's dictating where so much of our transit expansion budget is spent.

 

[Sakraycore]

It's about respecting Scarborough, and giving us the transit that we deserve, and not some lame LRT that none of us will use. The good LRTs that could've been built are already dead - that boat has sailed.

 

[narduch]

Yes, it is.

I don't see residents of Yonge/Eglinton complaining about having to transfer to the Bloor Line.

This extension isn't an improvement to 'the whole of Scarborough transit' - it's just the opposite. It's great for people who need to go straight to STC, many of whom I'm sure parked and don't actually live in the area.

A network of density-appropriate LRTs would be a huge boon to the area.

Instead let's waste $5 billion because a certain group of people are too lazy to make a transfer.

It's amazing this is what's dictating where so much of our transit expansion budget is spent.

Riders who get on at Kipling station deserve a transfer free ride to Union!

 

[nfitz]

At $5 billion for one subway stop, you could build all of the Sheppard East, Scarborough-Malvern (aka Crosstown East), and convert the SRT to LRT and extend to Malvern. About 56 stops.

So one $5 billion subway stop or a network of 56 stops?

If the SSE is now $5 billion then the SLRT must be over $4 billion.

Scarborough-Malvern LRT at $4 billion?

I didn't mention the SMLRT?

SLRT - Scarborough LRT
SMLRT - Scarborough Malvern LRT

The name used through the EA process was "Scarborough Rapid Transit" - SRT. For example, see the cover of this draft EA:

All these acronyms with S's and T's don'g really do much to make things clear.

The SRT extension/upgrade is another story. Yes, it would cost more - but not as much more, as a full EAa was done, AND the design was advanced far enough to issue the RFQ (remember they issued the RFQ?).

The Line 2 extension isn't getting more expensive primarily because time is passing - it's getting more expensive because they are doing more work, finding out more about the geologic conditions, and understanding how deep they would have to build it. That kind of work was done a long time ago for the Line 3 conversion to LRT and extension to Sheppard.

 

[11th]

I think the Sheppard Line still runs at a deficit, 15 years after it opened. The massive development boom everyone expected hasn't really occurred.

It shouldn't have been built.

It should either be build in full, or at least connect to either STC or Spadina line. It's not a trunk line as it should be because they neutered it on both ends. Right now its only function is replacing what the former express branches of 85 bus did. Oh wait, not even there, express branches ran express from Yonge to Victoria Park! No wonder it's a failure.

 

[pstogios]

It's about respecting Scarborough, and giving us the transit that we deserve, and not some lame LRT that none of us will use. The good LRTs that could've been built are already dead - that boat has sailed.

That's the Scarborough Subway Psychosis in a nutshell!

"We deserve respect!!!"

"We deserve subways subways subways!!"

What about people at Finch and Bathurst??

What about people at Lakeshore and Islington?

What about people at Don Mills and Bayview?

Don't they deserve respect?

Don't they deserve a gold-plated Subway right up to their front doors?

What's so special about people in Scarborough, or East York, or Etobicoke, or North York, or Downtown, that they "DESERVE" subways???

The answer is -----> Nobody deserves ANYTHING more than a mass transit mode that matches the DENSITY AND RIDERSHIP in their neighbourhood.

The DENSITY AND RIDERSHIP in Scarborough was, is, and will continue to be, well suited to LRT lines.

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[pstogios]

Maybe im misinterpreting here so feel free to clarify I'm wrong as Id hate to think someone could really mean this? But from what I gather from your post here's why I understand you are saying?

Sheppard Subway supporters - Major psychological mental disordered people most of whom live within Scarborough's borders

Sheppard LRT supporters - Intelligent evidence based scholars, most of whom don't live within Scarborough's borders.


The LRT dream comment was not to insult its to point out the reality that the Sheppard LRT is not likely to be built although many here seem to be holding out hopes for it due to postponements and old EA's. The line is not heavily supported by many very intelligent residents many of whom would be impacted negatively by the extra transfer on a separate technology to the stub sticking out in North York. You don't agree, because from your stand point the current lack of funding is your main priority which is a separate complex topic in itself. I don't share this short term vision but would never feel the need to insult anyones intelligence who disagrees on this level. We all have our reasons and evidence for believing in what is the best solution for the long term future and there's a lot of differing benefits for each plan.

I wasn't talking about the Sheppard East LRT. I was talking about the stupid plan to switch from the fully-funded, ridership- and density-appropriate Scarborough RT replacement plan to the Bloor Danforth subway extension. This was done all to feed the psychosis that a subway and only a subway is most appropriate for this corridor because that is the only way that "respect" is shown to Scarborough residents that "deserve" subways.

I also did not specify where people that prefer subways live, or where people that prefer LRT live. You seem to think that I have a personal animosity against Scarborough residents, and also you seem to think you know where I live. All of which you don't know.

I DO have animosity against anyone, anywhere that ignores ridership and density numbers, which are publicly-available information, that show LRT from Kennedy to STC is the most appropriate transit mode, and instead prefers to overspend on a ridiculous subway... that person has the psychological issue.

We can't afford this level of stupidity in this city. People work their asses off to pay their taxes and wasting it like this is TOTALLY INEXCUSABLE.

 

[nfitz]

I wasn't talking about the Sheppard East LRT. I was talking about the stupid plan to switch from the fully-funded, ridership- and density-appropriate Scarborough Malvern LRT to the Bloor Danforth subway extension.

The Scarborough Malvern LRT (along Eglinton East, Kingston Road, and Morningside Avenue) has never been funded.

I think you are thinking of the he stupid plan to switch from the fully-funded, ridership- and density-appropriate Scarborough Rapid Transit LRT conversion to the Bloor Danforth subway extension.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Since "Scarborough deserves a subway" and deserve a "transfer-free" solution, would a SLRT that goes along the "approved corridor" but continues down Kennedy to Kingston and goes towards downtown and connects to the Waterfront LRT work? Of course, this line would be grade separated (elevated) along these corridors. This is just a scenario I would like opinion on. This allows a "transfer-free" ride downtown and has the speed of a subway. I'm not proposing this to replace the SSE or EELRT in any way in the current "approved plan", just a "what if" it was proposed earlier.

 

[nfitz]

Since "Scarborough deserves a subway" and deserve a "transfer-free" solution, would a SLRT that goes along the "approved corridor" but continues down Kennedy to Kingston and goes towards downtown and connects to the Waterfront LRT work?

The last LRT plan that was axed (after IO had started the RFQ process, and just weeks before the RFP was issued), had a transfer-free solution, proceeding along Eglinton to Mount Dennis.

 

[micheal_can]

For those who think LRT is the solution, please go visit Boston and ride the lines there. The Green line is an LRT. The rest are subways. Even during the rush hour, the subways are not nearly as jammed packed as the LRT. Sometimes you must wait for another train before getting on.

So, ya, go build an LRT to downtown. That will do little to truly help the area.

 

[OneCity]

Since "Scarborough deserves a subway" and deserve a "transfer-free" solution, would a SLRT that goes along the "approved corridor" but continues down Kennedy to Kingston and goes towards downtown and connects to the Waterfront LRT work? Of course, this line would be grade separated (elevated) along these corridors. This is just a scenario I would like opinion on. This allows a "transfer-free" ride downtown and has the speed of a subway. I'm not proposing this to replace the SSE or EELRT in any way in the current "approved plan", just a "what if" it was proposed earlier.

Interesting idea, love it. Any design that doesn't place a transfer one stop before SCC would have been worth exploring. For me it also depends on the number of stops we would place on this LRT line but this idea could be amazing in the sense it would also provide redundancy giving a three options downtown from Kennedy to the BDL or Crosstown LRT should a standard delay occur on any one of the lines. Also nice to have easy access from SCC to other "key" areas of the City by rapid transit.

 

[LNahid2000]

For those who think LRT is the solution, please go visit Boston and ride the lines there. The Green line is an LRT. The rest are subways. Even during the rush hour, the subways are not nearly as jammed packed as the LRT. Sometimes you must wait for another train before getting on.

So, ya, go build an LRT to downtown. That will do little to truly help the area.

The reason the green line is jam packed is because its 4 branches merge when they hit downtown. The 4 branches go through areas much more densely populated than Scarborough. It also is the oldest underground railway in North America (built in 1897) so it has had 120 years to build ridership. It's the busiest light rail system in North America. Not comparable to the situation in Scarborough at all.

Other cities have LRTs going from the suburbs to downtown which are nowhere as busy.