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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

I get what those who argue for retaining the transfer are saying, but there does need to be consistency in their position when we get to discussion about other Line 1/Line 2 extensions. Will we hear equal outrage about pushing it north of Steeles? About Sherway Gardens? Where was this outrage when the Vaughan extension was approved?

I don't agree that there was any tangible antipathy to Scarborough that they ended up with a transfer, it was screwup not conspiracy - but if only Scarborough has to endure one, then yes we have shorted that community relative to others.

Having said that, I still wonder what the "average" SRT user would say if we announced that the first 5,000,000 people to make the transfer get a $100 gift certificate. How would the transfer look then? That would save half the added cost of the subway option. Or, the roughly 500,000 adult residents of Scarborough each get a $1,000 tax credit? The transfer is inconvenient, but this may be overstated compared to the actual impact.

Personally I don't have a problem with the extension IF we make it useful to more people... ie not a one stop. And, we need assurance that developers are willing to build.....and pay the taxes and development charges. If the extension enables a new metropolitan node in the City, great. But if after building a subway, we have to subsidise or provide incentives before the developers build.... then our willingness to do the right thing by Scarborough would have been taken advantage of.

- Paul
 
innsertnamehere said:
So that essentially means that they are assuming the SRT transfer takes 3 minutes on average. My experience is more like 5 or 6.

Trains also regularly crawl into Kennedy, I wonder if a more modern crossover at Scarborough Centre would eliminate that.
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From the reports I have read the new STC station will be built using side platforms instead of a centre platform due to construction constraints. So I guess the crawling will still exist
 
how will people know where to get on the train then? or will it be like Sheppard Yonge on the Sheppard line where they only use a single platform?
 
innsertnamehere said:
how will people know where to get on the train then? or will it be like Sheppard Yonge on the Sheppard line where they only use a single platform?
Click to expand...
I think the TTC will have a sign showing which platform to use. Steve Munro has a theory which the TTC can use during rush hour which consists of unloading on one side platform moving the train into the tail tracks and crossing over there and then coming to load at the other platform. Whether the TTC will use this method is up in the air though
 
JoEddie7677 said:
I think the TTC will have a sign showing which platform to use. Steve Munro has a theory which the TTC can use during rush hour which consists of unloading on one side platform moving the train into the tail tracks and crossing over there and then coming to load at the other platform. Whether the TTC will use this method is up in the air though
Click to expand...

This was exactly how Sheppard-Yonge Station was designed to operate. Trains terminating at Sheppard-Yonge Station would stop on the north-side platform, passengers would exit, then the train would use the tail track to switch to the south-side platform to pick up passengers. The TTC has never used this capability so far as I'm aware.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
This was exactly how Sheppard-Yonge Station was designed to operate. Trains terminating at Sheppard-Yonge Station would stop on the north-side platform, passengers would exit, then the train would use the tail track to switch to the south-side platform to pick up passengers. The TTC has never used this capability so far as I'm aware.
Click to expand...

JoEddie7677 said:
I think the TTC will have a sign showing which platform to use. Steve Munro has a theory which the TTC can use during rush hour which consists of unloading on one side platform moving the train into the tail tracks and crossing over there and then coming to load at the other platform.
Click to expand...

In other words, exactly like how it's done in the Montreal Metro.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
Trains also regularly crawl into Kennedy, I wonder if a more modern crossover at Scarborough Centre would eliminate that.
Click to expand...

It's mostly that there is no track beyond the station to coast on if the brakes suddenly fail at the station. Adding 200m of track past Kennedy would do it.

Don Mills has a similar issue though not as noticeable for the rider because the platforms are longer.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
This was exactly how Sheppard-Yonge Station was designed to operate. Trains terminating at Sheppard-Yonge Station would stop on the north-side platform, passengers would exit, then the train would use the tail track to switch to the south-side platform to pick up passengers. The TTC has never used this capability so far as I'm aware.
Click to expand...

The Sheppard-Yonge platform was built in anticipation of a future extension to Downsview. IIRC there's also a roughed-in side platform for part of the Yonge subway station, so that they wouldn't get a bottleneck like they did at Bloor-Yonge.

Right now they're mainly used to store the four trains before service starts. One will wait on the south side, one west of the station, one on the north side and one east of the station.
 
Avenue said:
I thought Finch was mainly for local transit, with the surface route and really frequent stop spacing and all. If so, how's it a relevant comparison here?
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Finch won't be a streetcar.

First of all it would be on it's own right-of-way. This means that cars won't be able to interfere with Finch, except at intersections, where the Finch LRT will always have signal priority. This is very unlike streetcars.

Second, it has frequent stopping because it is designed as a local but frequent service. It is not stopping every 150m like the St. Clair streetcar, but rather, every ~500-750m, which is just short of Bloor-Danforth's average of 750-1km.

So it won't be a subway, but it will be a fast and frequent service, that is more or less unimpedded by cars due to it's own ROW and signal prioritization.
 
The TTC wasn't built to support that kind of switch. In theory they could do that at Finch (since there's a pocket track north of the station) but it's still complicated by the other end - a lot of trains would need to be short-turned at Union or St. Clair West for it to work.
 
dowlingm said:
Scarborough Town has had "long term potential" for a "long term" now. All jokes aside, it would be helpful if you could explain why Scarborough Town will succeed in building a sustainable mixed use community, not just condos and a mall, when North York Centre with its two subway lines could not.
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I think following through with the current plans we have on the table (Scarborough Centre Secondary Plan, Scarborough Centre Public Realm and Streetscape Master Plan, Public Art Master Plan) adequately describes how this will occur. But with that, I think the implementation of the goals and policies described needs to be done more aggressively. I also feel some type of incentive program to have office space locate to the Centre is required. Perhaps in the form of a tax incentive.
 
crs1026 said:
Having said that, I still wonder what the "average" SRT user would say if we announced that the first 5,000,000 people to make the transfer get a $100 gift certificate. How would the transfer look then? That would save half the added cost of the subway option. Or, the roughly 500,000 adult residents of Scarborough each get a $1,000 tax credit? The transfer is inconvenient, but this may be overstated compared to the actual impact.
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It's a very good point, and you've presented the cost factor in a way Joe Commuter would understand most easily.

What's been forgotten in this whole 'avoiding transfers' aspect is that the suburban Metro Councillors were the ones pushing for the 'one seat ride downtown' (which meant down University and Yonge at the time) on the 'new' Bloor-Danforth subway. We all know what happened to that, and the 'Y' sits virtually unused to this day save for garbage runs and stock movement.

How the 'no transfer to downtown' arguement still holds water boggles the mind. The debate becomes one of 'entitlement' rather than sensible engineering.
 
JGHali said:
If you're cool with an elevated alignment, why not just go forward with the, ahem, elevated/grade-separated SLRT plan which costs less, has more stations, and goes farther than the ludicrous idea of a $4bn station?



Yes, yes, there will be thousands of jobs, right? Just as was foreseen for North York's "downtown"? How many condos do you think you'd see south of Finch on Yonge if the nearest station to the south was York Mills?
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Why do you think North York Centre has not been a success? There are many good jobs there (I have worked a few at NYC), it's a very walkable community, relatively high density, excellent transit access. As for your previous comment, I said the refurbishment/extension of the SRT was my first preference from day one.
 
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