News   Jul 22, 2024
 95     0 
News   Jul 19, 2024
 949     0 
News   Jul 19, 2024
 4K     7 

Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

If it's trading 2 LRTs for a subway and a BRT, I think most Scarberians would call that even. Most would probably even prefer that.

I don't and you don't and 95% of the people on UT don't. But we're the exception. Most aren't very knowlegable about transit issues and consider LRT to be second class. It's unfortunate that Ford "canceled" the SELRT. If he hadn't it would be opening by now. We would have the oppertunity to show everyone that LRT is not "second class" transit.

Agreed, it isn't but they look like Streetcars so they must be. This really goes back to miller and his inability to explain why he left office.


If I was stintz I would run around telling people the ford opposes a subway in Scarborough...see how that goes over in elections next year.
 
If it's trading 2 LRTs for a subway and a BRT, I think most Scarberians would call that even. Most would probably even prefer that.
If it's trading 2 LRTs for a subway and a BRT, I think most Scarberians would call that even. Most would probably even prefer that.

They would "call that even"? I wasn't aware that Scarborough was out for retribution. I thought our goal was to deliver the best transit possible across Toronto.

As far as I'm concerned, the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs should be built. Not building them would be a very significant loss for Toronto. Much more than what would be gained from moving the SRT from LRT to subway.

If this makes some Scarborough residents upset, well tough. The SRT plan is 95% as good as the subway plan and sacrificing Finch and Sheppard for a subway would be ridiculous.
 
Agreed, it isn't but they look like Streetcars so they must be.
And it didn't help that Miller described LRT as streetcars with wider stop spacing:

[video=youtube;OQ3eJwuj910]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ3eJwuj910[/video]

Calling them subways that have the flexibility to run in a ROW, underground or elevated, with rider stop spacing and signal priority would have been far easier for the public to understand.
 
Last edited:
Glenn De Baeremaeker is really scared for his job... No matter what he does, he will lose his seat

Doubt it. De Baermaeker has been on council for 10 years this year and more importantly he won 62% of the vote in the last election. He will keep his seat either way this goes down.
 
They would "call that even"? I wasn't aware that Scarborough was out for retribution. I thought our goal was to deliver the best transit possible across Toronto.

As far as I'm concerned, the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs should be built. Not building them would be a very significant loss for Toronto. Much more than what would be gained from moving the SRT from LRT to subway.

If this makes some Scarborough residents upset, well tough. The SRT plan is 95% as good as the subway plan and sacrificing Finch and Sheppard for a subway would be ridiculous.

They could extend sheppard west up Rexdale Blvd in the future, or build a York Mills - Ellesmere line.
 
If this makes some Scarborough residents upset, well tough. The SRT plan is 95% as good as the subway plan and sacrificing Finch and Sheppard for a subway would be ridiculous.

I agree we (Scarberians) should just suck it up while the LRT gets built. If that means people have to take a bus to the STC for four years then so be it. Its not like the rest of Scarborough already doesn't have to take typically more than one bus to the STC already (I for instance have to take either a bus and then the SRT or two buses). Bus transferring is just a part of life out here. :)
 
Last edited:
I agree we (Scarberians) should just suck it up while the LRT gets built. If that means people have to take a bus to the STC for four years then so be it. Its not like the rest of Scarborough already doesn't have to take typically more than one bus to the STC already (I for instance have to take either a bus and then the SRT or two buses). Bus transferring is just a part of life out here. :)
You don't deserve this, your politicians have failed you.

Good. No political bailouts.
 
Metrolinx says no to a Bloor-Danforth extension:

/[/URL]

The transfer is what really annoys me of the whole thing. The second thing is that without a subway I wonder if STC will ever become what a major HUB for employment and condos. Maybe the 500 million could go into elevating Eglinton. I don't know.. Its just frustrating to keep having these conversations..
 
Well this discussion isn't helped by the blatant lying that the TTC does.

Seriously, $2.2 billion to convert SRT to LRT with a tiny 4km extension and 4 years to do it? Thanks god Vancouver doesn't work on those cost levels or timetables as we would still be building the Expo line. The 11km completely grade separated Evergreen SkyTrain line will take 3 years to build, cost $1.4 billion, include a one km tunnel and will be much cheaper to run.

As for the expansion itself, it might reduce time travel by 3 to 3 minutes but that's it. The SRT may have it's issues thanks to the TTC but it's speed isn't one of them. This seems like a $2 billion project for the sole purpose of getting rid of a transfer.

I can appreciate that Scarberians demand better transit if they are paying for it, it's only fair. That said if Metrolinx had caved in then how many DAYS would it take for the people of Humber to demand that the Finch line also be a tunneled subway and then howmany days after that for the people of Miminco? It's one thing to be fair to all transit riders and taxpayers and quite another to have to plan your transit system with a gun at your head.

I think a far superior, and probably one that is easier to sell to all areas of the city, is to electrify all the GO lines {except Barrie and starting with Lakeshore East/West and Kitchener} and have frequent all day service {ie every 15 minutes off peak} and the system being included in the Metropass. The people of South Scar or Malvern would be downtown using electrified GO by the time they would even get to Kennedy.

Not only would this greatly increase mobility, relieve traffic on the BD and hence Yonge, be much, much cheaper than their existing very expensive GO train, but also be implemented very quickly.

This last point is essential as people don't want to start paying taxes only to find out that the improvements they are paying for won't start showing up for at least 10 years. That's akin to making payments on your new car but not being able to drive it for 10 years. Fare integration could start immediately as soon as the taxes are introduced and electrification can be brought in over the next few years. People will immediately seen the benefits of the taxes they are paying which is essential for the TTC and Metrolinx as they have little credibility and even if the taxes start people will have little faith they will get the service they were promised and know that it will not come in on time or on budget.

The idea of making TTC fares valid for all GO service {bus and rail} within the 416 should also apply to the UP Link to bring rapid transit to the malcontents in Weston and Humber areas which would greatly reduce travel times and ease traffic on the Finch line.

The TTC and Metrolinx have zero credibility and it's a reputation that they very justly deserve. By bringing in such a system, the improved true rapid transit could begin the first day the taxes are introduced so they can see the immediate benefits of their hard earned tax dollars and know that the money was going to where it was suppose to and not to administration, countless enviornmental reviews, or general coffers.
 
I don't and you don't and 95% of the people on UT don't. But we're the exception. Most aren't very knowlegable about transit issues and consider LRT to be second class. It's unfortunate that Ford "canceled" the SELRT. If he hadn't it would be opening by now. We would have the oppertunity to show everyone that LRT is not "second class" transit.

I would like to comment on that...

You have to give people a little bit more credit than that. I lived in both London and Paris and I can clearly see that Paris Tram system that they call "Tramways" for Streetcar instead of "Train Leger sur Rail" for LRT is far from being the same thing as the DLR in London.

Montreal will build an LRT on Champlain Bridge and they call it SLR "Service leger sur Rail". They also want a line that is just as long as SELRT with similar vehicles and same operating methods. They don't call it an LRT. They call it a Tramway (streetcar). Nothing to do with the vehicle, let's be clear on that. It's how they operate it that clearly differentiates them

http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/pls/por...ments/1_rapport_synthse_projet_du_tramway.pdf

You can't expect people to not be smart enough to make the difference between LRT and Streetcar. Eglinton up until Don Mills is an LRT. If they would have kept the whole line 100% grade separated like the RT then it would have been on the same level as the DRL in London or the Sky Train in Vancouver.

To go back to the Eglinton Crosstown in Scarborough, they are upset that the LRT operates like a streetcar on their doorsteps. (Same vehicles but lower mode of operations, second rated if you prefer). Sure, the trains will short turn in the tunnel section if there's an accident at an intersection like Victoria Park...meaning if something happens on their side of the line, they get stuck waiting for shuttle buses (imagine in winter) while the rest of the line gets the service. Is it so hard to see it from their perspective, especially when they pay taxes like everybody else to the city?

Personally, the only reason I support the BD going to Sheppard is to avoid the RT shutdown for 3-4 years otherwise, there's nothing wrong with the RT upgrading which would serve Centennial College and go deeper within Scarbourough unlike CDL thinking that it's not even worth crossing the 401.

Except for the RT and most of Eglinton Crosstown along with parts of the West Waterfront line, Transit City was a massive and ambitious streetcar network expansion but they used the LRT brand all over it to sell it. Nothing wrong with a streetcar expansion. Yes, I said the sacrilegious word streetcar. But advertising it for something it's not is wrong. Go to Europe and you will see the same vehicles operating the same way Transit City was suppose to be managed and they call it Streetcar or are we calling Europeans ignorants for not calling their lines LRT's?

Transit City's main problem is that those who came up with it, wanted that plan to substitute itself to subway extensions. Would we be talking about a DRL if Jane and Don Mills were under construction today? Why did Miller and Giambrone pushed Transit City harder than the DRL then?

Like I said, give people more credit instead of calling them ignorant.
 
Last edited:
They would "call that even"? I wasn't aware that Scarborough was out for retribution. I thought our goal was to deliver the best transit possible across Toronto.

As far as I'm concerned, the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs should be built. Not building them would be a very significant loss for Toronto. Much more than what would be gained from moving the SRT from LRT to subway.

If this makes some Scarborough residents upset, well tough. The SRT plan is 95% as good as the subway plan and sacrificing Finch and Sheppard for a subway would be ridiculous.

Not "retribution", by calling it even I meant that the 2 deals would be even in terms of quality of service.
 

Back
Top