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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Voltz said:
No, the Elginton LRT tunnel was the worst plan at the time, it would have taken $2 billion and buried it in the ground to build a tunnel to a location where there is already a Subway and a GO train line, and only save a few minutes in travel time compared to the surface alignment, which there is plenty of room on the surface for. And the vast majority of the increase in ridership was existing riders who are already on the Bloor Danforth line. It also would have cost us the Finch and Sheppard LRT's.

The DRL north of Danforth is justified on its own without diverting riders from Danforth to Eglinton and forcing them to get on sooner.
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1) Sheppard is not being built now
2) It could use the SRT alignment.
3) Of course the DRL is justified, but I would like it to take a huge burden off the Yonge Line.



Eglinton should have been a subway from Pearson to Kennedy in the original TC plans.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
It should have been, which is what I am saying. Had it been, there would be no subway wars today. That was worth it, to me. I'm so tired of the inertia.
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It's probably overkill - and besides the current suggestion for the western stretch (some at grade, some below) seems like a good balance between cost and speed.

If there is ever a "should" - it is that the Richview corridor shouldn't have been sold partly for development.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
It's probably overkill - and besides the current suggestion for the western stretch (some at grade, some below) seems like a good balance between cost and speed.

If there is ever a "should" - it is that the Richview corridor shouldn't have been sold partly for development.

AoD
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I'd rather that overkill then this subway, which is even more overkill and will probably cost more in the long run.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I'd rather that overkill then this subway, which is even more overkill and will probably cost more in the long run.
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Exactly. Why shouldn't Eglinton be a trunk root? It is quicker than Line 2 for reaching Yonge Street from Kennedy Station.

We could have connected the Scarborough-Malvern LRT with Eglinton at Kennedy as well, if we wanted to really justify tunneled. Heck, doing so even answers our capacity problems because the branching will mean double the frequency in the central tunnel portion.
 
Nothing short of a change in government will get the Crosstown converted to T1 heavy rail subway operations at this point. The sad thing is that on Day One this line will be busier than the entire Sheppard Subway and may suffer from capacity issues in the short term because we didn't plan far enough ahead.
 
WislaHD said:
Exactly. Why shouldn't Eglinton be a trunk root? It is quicker than Line 2 for reaching Yonge Street from Kennedy Station.

We could have connected the Scarborough-Malvern LRT with Eglinton at Kennedy as well, if we wanted to really justify tunneled. Heck, doing so even answers our capacity problems because the branching will mean double the frequency in the central tunnel portion.
Click to expand...

If this happened, and let's say we went back in time to pre-Crosstown construction, do you think it'd be a good idea to save the central tunnel for a later 'phase'? So we'd still get Eglinton West and East, but we'd hold off for a bit on the connecting central portion. Although I think the Crosstown is great and a prime example of tunneled streetcars/LRT as seen in many major cities, I think Eglinton jumped the gun a bit.

The southern sections of the Jane LRT and Don Mills LRT were clearly problematic from Day One (narrow roadway, too many traffic lights), and should've always been extensions of the DRL 'U' instead of LRT. The west DRL leg would go up Keele/Weston to Mt Dennis and the east leg up Pape to Don Mills/Eglinton. So with Eglinton West and East feeding into these legs of the U, and with proper integration, many peak riders could naturally be diverted onto the U. Once that's in place the 'Phase II' of building the central portion of the Crosstown and connecting Eglinton East and West could come online. Just wondering if anyone else thought this could be a good idea?
 
Hopkins123 said:
Nothing short of a change in government will get the Crosstown converted to T1 heavy rail subway operations at this point. The sad thing is that on Day One this line will be busier than the entire Sheppard Subway and may suffer from capacity issues in the short term because we didn't plan far enough ahead.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting about the Finch West LRT, which would feed Line 1 at the Finch West Station, from the northwest. As well, the Sheppard East LRT, which would feed Line 4 and then Line 1, from the northeast. That is also why the DRL is needed to siphon off transit users from the northeast and east.
 
44 North said:
If this happened, and let's say we went back in time to pre-Crosstown construction, do you think it'd be a good idea to save the central tunnel for a later 'phase'? So we'd still get Eglinton West and East, but we'd hold off for a bit on the connecting central portion. Although I think the Crosstown is great and a prime example of tunneled streetcars/LRT as seen in many major cities, I think Eglinton jumped the gun a bit.

The southern sections of the Jane LRT and Don Mills LRT were clearly problematic from Day One (narrow roadway, too many traffic lights), and should've always been extensions of the DRL 'U' instead of LRT. The west DRL leg would go up Keele/Weston to Mt Dennis and the east leg up Pape to Don Mills/Eglinton. So with Eglinton West and East feeding into these legs of the U, and with proper integration, many peak riders could naturally be diverted onto the U. Once that's in place the 'Phase II' of building the central portion of the Crosstown and connecting Eglinton East and West could come online. Just wondering if anyone else thought this could be a good idea?
Click to expand...
Yah that makes 'sense' in the planning sense.

But reality would be that the central portion would never be built unless we did it when the political will and the money was there. We would be arguing for completing the Eglinton line as a priority before the DRL.
 
Hopkins123 said:
Nothing short of a change in government will get the Crosstown converted to T1 heavy rail subway operations at this point. The sad thing is that on Day One this line will be busier than the entire Sheppard Subway and may suffer from capacity issues in the short term because we didn't plan far enough ahead.
Click to expand...

These ridership projections really should include long term ridership estimates, beyond 2031. At 2031 the line is still brand new, only 10 years old.

2031 ridership is 7,000 pphpd westbound into Eglinton West Station, without crosstown West. That's a little less than half of capacity.
 
Palma said:
what else is new !
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The projections that even a DRL to Sheppard won't be enough to relieve the Yonge line and that by 2041 the Spadina line will be over-capacity too.

That is relatively new, being information released from studies this year. So that is fun. Sheppard Subway extension to STC anyone?
 
WislaHD said:
Exactly. Why shouldn't Eglinton be a trunk root? It is quicker than Line 2 for reaching Yonge Street from Kennedy Station.

We could have connected the Scarborough-Malvern LRT with Eglinton at Kennedy as well, if we wanted to really justify tunneled. Heck, doing so even answers our capacity problems because the branching will mean double the frequency in the central tunnel portion.
Click to expand...

44 North said:
If this happened, and let's say we went back in time to pre-Crosstown construction, do you think it'd be a good idea to save the central tunnel for a later 'phase'? So we'd still get Eglinton West and East, but we'd hold off for a bit on the connecting central portion. Although I think the Crosstown is great and a prime example of tunneled streetcars/LRT as seen in many major cities, I think Eglinton jumped the gun a bit.

The southern sections of the Jane LRT and Don Mills LRT were clearly problematic from Day One (narrow roadway, too many traffic lights), and should've always been extensions of the DRL 'U' instead of LRT. The west DRL leg would go up Keele/Weston to Mt Dennis and the east leg up Pape to Don Mills/Eglinton. So with Eglinton West and East feeding into these legs of the U, and with proper integration, many peak riders could naturally be diverted onto the U. Once that's in place the 'Phase II' of building the central portion of the Crosstown and connecting Eglinton East and West could come online. Just wondering if anyone else thought this could be a good idea?
Click to expand...

WislaHD said:
Yah that makes 'sense' in the planning sense.

But reality would be that the central portion would never be built unless we did it when the political will and the money was there. We would be arguing for completing the Eglinton line as a priority before the DRL.
Click to expand...

TheTigerMaster said:
These ridership projections really should include long term ridership estimates, beyond 2031. At 2031 the line is still brand new, only 10 years old.

2031 ridership is 7,000 pphpd westbound into Eglinton West Station, without crosstown West. That's a little less than half of capacity.
Click to expand...

WislaHD said:
The projections that even a DRL to Sheppard won't be enough to relieve the Yonge line and that by 2041 the Spadina line will be over-capacity too.

That is relatively new, being information released from studies this year. So that is fun. Sheppard Subway extension to STC anyone?
Click to expand...
Well then.

Do you guys think heavy rail from the airport to UTSC would have worked? Or the Eglinton Line heavy Rail from the Airport the Scarborough Center, where it links with Sheppard? Anyone want to take a wack at this?
 
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