Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[W. K. Lis]

From this link.

Shanghai, China opened its first metro (subway) in 1993. In 2016, it had its last expansion (so far). It now is 588 km in length with 364 stations. See more information about the Shanghai Metro at this link.

Nice when you have no EA's, NIMBYs, or opposition to worry about. You just do it. Even downtown, if you want to.

 

[coffey1]

Yes as well as no real geographical bias & seamless runs with transfers only at crossings.

+1 for the ruling "Communist" Elites of China for such fine work

 

[Johnny Au]

From this link.

Shanghai, China opened its first metro (subway) in 1993. In 2016, it had its last expansion (so far). It now is 588 km in length with 364 stations. See more information about the Shanghai Metro at this link.

Nice when you have no EA's, NIMBYs, or opposition to worry about. You just do it. Even downtown, if you want to.

The Shanghai Metro is still not finished expanding yet.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Shanghai Metro is still not finished expanding yet.

Very true. From this link:

Shanghai plans to add four new metro lines by 2020, so you'll never again be more than 600 meters away from a station

With the recent openings of new tracks on Lines 11, 12 and 13, Shanghai's subway network now comprises more than 600 kilometers of track with 366 stations. But, of course, city planners aren't finished there.

Estimates are that by 2020, the network will increase in size to include over 800 kilometers worth of track after Lines 14 - 18 open. Once that happens, if you're in the city center you'll never be more than 600 meters away from a metro station, Kuaibo reports.

Additionally, by 2020, public transit ridership is projected to reach 11,500,000 trips a day, and rail density is set to increase to 0.13 kilometers per square kilometer, an increase of 28%.

While Toronto maybe two by 2020, sort of.

Toronto will have only one extension opening (Line 1 extension to Vaughan) by 2017. Maybe one more (Crosstown LRT) by 2020.

After that, it will depend upon what the politicians can delay, cancel, approve, start, plan, or alter in some way (Finch West LRT, Line 2 extension to Scarborough Town Centre, Sheppard East LRT, Crosstown West extension, Crosstown East extension, DRL, Line 1 extension to Richmond Hill, Jane LRT, Lakeshore West LRT). There are really no firm dates, just wishful dates.

SmartTrack maybe considered as a "surface" metro or a local (GO/RER?) commuter train. Depends upon who you ask. Will it open by 2020? Maybe 2022?

 

[salsa]

I'm so tired of these useless posts comparing transit expansion in Asian megacities, as if that somehow has any relevance to Toronto. As usual, there was no acknowledgement that this is only made possible because of completely different political and economic circumstances, or the fact that the population and density levels are far greater than here to justify so many subways.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

At present, there is no strong push from the public to extend the Sheppard subway anytime soon. A few councillors and MPPs might want that, but they only succeeded in delaying the LRT on Sheppard East.

No need to make concessions when you haven't even been asked to do so.

There was a sheppard suburban advocacy. Don't think that won't happen again. I don't why people think just because they have one subway they'll stop now. They won't.

There's a strong push for transit in many areas. Its far overdue all over the map. There's no reason to pit areas against each others once again. Bottom line if we are serious about building a public transit network in this City we need to be serious about funding for all these projects that are overdue & stop pitting commuters against each other.

The residents are pissed all over Scarborough and these areas all have differing needs. Its only because our local papers only bash suburban projects and promote downtown centric projects & you don't hear this frustration and anger. Well, until election time that is. Than we have chaos again because too many people on the short end are not being listened too.

We need to face the reality of the entire picture.

Scarborough is not a monolith yes. Ultimately these projects do nothing for those east of SCC.

 

[RyLucky]

Once Eglinton opens, Toronto will finally realize what an LRT can be. I think low-floor LRT will be the dominant rapid transit investment in Toronto for the next century, with much more versatility, high speeds, and lower costs. Comparing new LRTs to Spadina or St Claire is like comparing bullet trains to VIA Rail, but I understand that people can sometimes only imagine what they already know.

In retrospect, it might have been better to build the Sheppard Subway with LRT technology, and for the price difference, we might have been able to extend it a few more stops east, perhaps partly above ground. Naturally, it would have been nice to extend/connect it with Finch West LRT eventually. Scarborough Line 3 on the other hand probably should have never been built, but I'm alright with getting the Line 2 extension to STC and the Eglinton Crosstown East extension to UTSC. UPX was a failed attempt to realize airport transit, but I'm hopeful it may evolve over time to serve more commuters and possibly add a station or two. Three big mistakes aren't the end of the world. We'll move on.

Something has to - and will - be done to connect a number of disparate employment and transit hubs in Mississauga and Brampton. Hurontario, Eglinton E extension, and Finch W LRTs and UPX come close setting up a network, but there will be major gaps. Perhaps a Queen W extension of the relief line (which you probably aren't surprised I think should also use LRT technology) could connect to Cooksville and Line 2 should connect to Square One somehow.

Toronto's at a size now that it could use some truly "rapid" transit in the form of HSR. Aren't the feds suppose to have something to say about that this month? Certainly, it's still a ways off, but if the GTA had one HSR stop on either side, I'd love to know where. In the meantime, I'll take VIA upgrades if they are up for grabs.

 

[ssiguy2]

Of course, playing devils advocate, it gives people the ability to see what LRT can do and they may decide they don't like it.
LRT down a tunnel is one thing but at grade with so many stops that Eglinton and other LRT projects in Toronto have may make people think that this is improved service but certainly not rapid. If they have ridden LRT in Calgary or Edmonton they maybe very disappointed to see how slow Toronto TC LRT lines are. REAL rapid transit LRT gives 100% priority to transit with real rail crossing barriers and not just better light coordination that has to still wait for opposite traffic or left hand turns.

Anyone who has been on LRT in Cal,Edm,LA,Sea,Dallas,Den,Minn or a host of other cities will find themselves shocked by how incredibly slow the Toronto LRT system is and question how it is any better than a BRT York style system that takes half as long to build and costs a third the price.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Anyone who has been on LRT in Cal,Edm,LA,Sea,Dallas,Den,Minn or a host of other cities will find themselves shocked by how incredibly slow the Toronto LRT system is and question how it is any better than a BRT York style system that takes half as long to build and costs a third the price.

One problem with your statement Toronto doesn't have any LRT lines yet. we have streetcars with a few lines in dedicated rights of way. We probably won't have railroad crossing gates either as the crossing of streets will be with the flow traffic and not cutting traffic off.

 

[RyLucky]

It's all about ROW, at least when it comes to operation. Lrt makes the difference when it comes to capital investment because it gives us more versatility with grade changes, turns, low floor stations, power supply and price.

When we are talking about the entire GTA, there are plenty of places where it makes sense to cross obstacles above and below grade, and there are plenty of routes where at-grade track and even at-grade stations would be just fine, cost a fraction of underground prices, but require steeper grades. Even fully underground lines (queen-relief) may as well be LRT if we are building new maintenance and storage anyway, so that we leave ourselves more options for expansion.

When I hear "subways subways subways" rhetoric, I think what is meant it "ROW ROW ROW" and not "heavy rolling stock". Silly things to conflate.

 

[crs1026]

One problem with your statement Toronto doesn't have any LRT lines yet. we have streetcars with a few lines in dedicated rights of way.

Dedicated ROW alone does not achieve LRT, it's just a start. Where we have ROW, we waste its potential through poor stop spacing, poor quality track, and conflict with auto traffic.

Toronto needs to master LRT, not just imitate it. We have barely begun.

- Paul

 

[RyLucky]

LRT in those other cities (especially the Canadian examples) is more similar to Toronto's subways than Toronto's current "LRT"s. Headways, top speeds, station spacing, and capacity can be about the same as our subways with enough cars and a separated ROW.

 

[44 North]

One problem with your statement Toronto doesn't have any LRT lines yet. we have streetcars with a few lines in dedicated rights of way. We probably won't have railroad crossing gates either as the crossing of streets will be with the flow traffic and not cutting traffic off.

I'd say we have three LRT lines (509, 510, 512). They use LRVs, were called LRT, and operate in a segregated right-of-ways with some grade-separated portions. It's just that they're slow, and we decided not to call them "LRT" anymore. This will naturally happen with the EBFLRT and WWLRT if they're ever built as proposed.

Much of the debate between the "Transit City" LRT lines and the 509, 510, and 512 is relative. The lines north of St Clair have less stops and less traffic lights per km because the urban built form. If we put the same lines south of there by default they'd have more stops and more traffic lights per km, and travel slower and less reliably as a result (like the 509, 510, and 512).

 

[RyLucky]

Not if, for instance, they were underground.

The 509, 510, and 510 are truncated, mixed ROW routes that at their best segments operate as well as the worst segments in Edmonton or Calgary. That's not to say they are bad routes (or even bad investments), it's just that they are coordinated in a way that limits their capabilities as rapid transit.

 

[Hopkins123]

What would it take to get this reverted back to a multi-stopping line extension? I think there's serious merit, not only in reinstating the Lawrence and Sheppard stops, but adding in stops at Brimley/Eglinton, Huntingwood and Finch as well. This may be the last subway built in a generation (apart from the DRL, fingers crossed), so we may as well go big or go home.