Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[W. K. Lis]

Building a subway extension is not cheap, its expensive.

 

[APTA-2048]

Ford wanted the exact same thing - a continuous SRT and Eglinton line. I agree that he knew nothing about transit, but he got the big things right. The Liberals, through Metrolinx, didn't want Conservative Ford to succeed so the opted for the expensive and inconvenient LRT solution. Ford and his people did not have the brains to realize that they were being sabatoged by by Liberals.

That's not exactly true. City Council voted to revert to the original plan. The Liberals just agreed with them at that point.

 

[coffey1]

Building a subway extension is not cheap, its expensive.

Oh it's clear what the transit "haves" are not happy about. But Its the cost of building the foundation of an equitable City transit network based on existing infrastructure.

And you just cant dig up enough minority special interest groups or citizen support out here in Scarborough to care for your concern of continuing a separate network to SCC. And they have tried very hard.

 

[ssiguy2]

The LRT replacement was ghastly expensive for a non-grade separated line.The best options was always by far the cheapest and easiest to build.....SkyTrain.

The horse has however left the barn and this line will most certainly come in over budget due to the corrupt and incompetent way Toronto handles transit construction but also I would be surprised if this line even gets done by 2030. They have made their decision but making transit decisions is Toronto is a bi-weekly affair but actually building something comes once a decade.

For those who are still furious about this waste of money I say don't worry about, I don't think the line will get built for at least a decade and potentially never. Scarberiens wanted the best or nothing and I think they got the best from a City counsel vote but in what eventually gets built will end up with the latter.

 

[coffey1]

The LRT replacement was ghastly expensive for a non-grade separated line.The best options was always by far the cheapest and easiest to build.....SkyTrain.

The horse has however left the barn and this line will most certainly come in over budget due to the corrupt and incompetent way Toronto handles transit construction but also I would be surprised if this line even gets done by 2030. They have made their decision but making transit decisions is Toronto is a bi-weekly affair but actually building something comes once a decade.

For those who are still furious about this waste of money I say don't worry about, I don't think the line will get built for at least a decade and potentially never. Scarberiens wanted the best or nothing and I think they got the best from a City counsel vote but in what eventually gets built will end up with the latter.

Delayed certainly. All projects are and given the design stage of course. But to say this specific project with exhausted and strong support from all 3 levels of Gov't wont be built? That is extremely hard to believe. I would not want to see how ugly our Municipal Politics would be if that was to ever happen. And more than likely wont. The subway will likely be enhanced from its current form in the next couple years and we'll all move on.

 

[M II A II R II K]

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

We get it Vancouver has anew toy. Toronto is more like Detroit we built a one off line to use the technology instead of building a whole system like Vancouver did. In Toronto it's an orphan system with no condition to any other vehicles in it. Converting it to LRT or subway is the easiest option as it will mean less vehicles to maintain of a different type.

 

[jcam]

And more than likely wont. The subway will likely be enhanced from its current form in the next couple years and we'll all move on.

I highly doubt the subway will be enhanced from its current proposal. The only thing that may happen is that the route is changed to be above ground to save money, and that lends itself to reusing or rebuilding a couple of the existing SRT stations. I can almost guarantee that with the cost already rising, we will NOT get any more underground stations. Council may be done with the subway vs. LRT debate, but council won't throw MORE money at this project than it already has.

 

[coffey1]

I highly doubt the subway will be enhanced from its current proposal. The only thing that may happen is that the route is changed to be above ground to save money, and that lends itself to reusing or rebuilding a couple of the existing SRT stations. I can almost guarantee that with the cost already rising, we will NOT get any more underground stations. Council may be done with the subway vs. LRT debate, but council won't throw MORE money at this project than it already has.

If above ground becomes an option it could open up the discussion for a Lawrence Station. By no means is the latest plan set in stone. It was just a concept to be within budget and get the project approved by council to move forward. The design will likely change drastically due to the known costs with tunneling this corridor. I believe that's why council just approved to pay another consultant to review alternate options than was requested of the current consultant (lol).

I also don't believe the Sheppard stop is off the radar & wouldn't be shocked to see this come to fruition after the bi-election. They have delayed the LRT and are studying the subway for a reason. In the meantime extending the line to Sheppard as per the original proposal will likely be a stop gap to buy time before any though of funding the Sheppard subway extension.

If they do extend this and fund the Eglinton LRT extension to UTSC I would expect Sheppard to revert back to LRT to form a loop. You would see little push back down the road with Smarttrack, the SSE, and a local LRT loop.

So it could stay as is. But will more than likely be enhanced.

 

[UD2]

I don't think that's going to happen because you're asking for a change in scope for an already approved and funded project which means more debate and delays.

however what I believe will happen is that any study of the sheppard line extension will include a southward turn to meet up with line 2 at STC.

 

[aquateam]

I don't think that's going to happen because you're asking for a change in scope for an already approved and funded project which means more debate and delays.

however what I believe will happen is that any study of the sheppard line extension will include a southward turn to meet up with line 2 at STC.

You've just described the original plan for the Sheppard subway, what would have been built if there was more money on the table than just for 5 stops. The Sheppard subway was always envisioned as going from Downsview to STC, which is why you'll sometimes hear calls to "complete" the Sheppard line.

 

[Cityminded]

You've just described the original plan for the Sheppard subway, what would have been built if there was more money on the table than just for 5 stops. The Sheppard subway was always envisioned as going from Downsview to STC, which is why you'll sometimes hear calls to "complete" the Sheppard line.

Yes, Downsview to STC please. A rather typical Toronto tale - we started with a good long-term goal, then cheapened it into a stub, and now want to add a different stub onto the original stub. Might be a world breakthrough: stub-on-a-stub transit expansion.

 

[BurlOak]

We get it Vancouver has anew toy. Toronto is more like Detroit we built a one off line to use the technology instead of building a whole system like Vancouver did. In Toronto it's an orphan system with no condition to any other vehicles in it. Converting it to LRT or subway is the easiest option as it will mean less vehicles to maintain of a different type.

When the decision was made, we had ZERO LRT so that's not really a reason.

And when you look at it, the decision to go LRT had huge cost implications.

SRT and Eglinton: instead of a connected SRT and Eglinton using SkyTrain, it became an LRT and subway extension for $2B + more.

Eglinton West: they have already acknowledged that a number of intersections need grade-separation, and the best benefit cost solution is full grade separation. Thus, SkyTrain would be less expensive since vehicles are lighter and need not be designed for crashes.

Don Mills LRT: everyone now agrees that this line should never have been conceived as LRT. It needs much more capacity and must be part of the DRL. It being proposed as LRT also delayed the DRL by a decade or more.

Sheppard: the only reason this was proposed as LRT was to shut the subway people up. Now we find out that the Scarborough Liberals wanted subway all along. This has resulted in a loss of almost a decade and we still will like get subway.

Finch: this is the only one where LRT makes some sense, but with money and time saved on other lines, this could have paid for Finch to be SkyTrain

Malvern LRT: that I another that may have been acceptable as LRT, although an SRT branch from STC to UTSC (it brach to malvern) and a cut and cover BD extension to Kingston (Rd. Not City) would have been preferred.

Waterfront: this would likely have been best as an LRT a like St. Clair, Spadina or Harbourfront.

 

[Johnny Au]

You've just described the original plan for the Sheppard subway, what would have been built if there was more money on the table than just for 5 stops. The Sheppard subway was always envisioned as going from Downsview to STC, which is why you'll sometimes hear calls to "complete" the Sheppard line.

Yet, there were no plans to have the Eglinton West subway extended eastward to Kennedy until the Eglinton Crosstown LRT was announced (and the underground portion would extend east to Brentcliffe).

 

[coffey1]

I don't think that's going to happen because you're asking for a change in scope for an already approved and funded project which means more debate and delays.

however what I believe will happen is that any study of the sheppard line extension will include a southward turn to meet up with line 2 at STC.

The alternate routes is what council just approved to study. No real change if they add Lawrence is a surface route option is approved. The Sheppard stop will only come funded from the Liberals if they really want the Rouge river riding in the bi-election. Otherwise if they don't we'll likely see the full Sheppard subway full steam ahead moving forward.

So there's certainly lots of variables on the horizon which could enhance the current SSE design with minor delays as we were only at 5% design to begin with so hardly a major delay. Its clear they want an alternate to the deep tunneling option.

Yes, Downsview to STC please. A rather typical Toronto tale - we started with a good long-term goal, then cheapened it into a stub, and now want to add a different stub onto the original stub. Might be a world breakthrough: stub-on-a-stub transit expansion.

2 more stubs on (East & West)& 2 stubs of DRL and we have something! Throw some LRT & BRT to fill in the gaps.... 5 more generations of children later and Voila! We did it!