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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

DRL way before smart track.

If Smart Track actually ends up costing $8 billion, you will get way more bang for the buck on the DRL. WAY more. Smart Track is unlikely to cost $8 billion though, probably closer to 2-3 billion.

Time to construct is rather inconsequential in the end, and you shouldn't be making huge infrastructure decisions based on that. They are also completely different projects, so to compare them is silly. they serve fundamentally different purposes (despite what Tory is telling us, Smart Track does rather little to relieve Yonge)
 
innsertnamehere said:
DRL way before smart track.

If Smart Track actually ends up costing $8 billion, you will get way more bang for the buck on the DRL. WAY more. Smart Track is unlikely to cost $8 billion though, probably closer to 2-3 billion.

Time to construct is rather inconsequential in the end, and you shouldn't be making huge infrastructure decisions based on that. They are also completely different projects, so to compare them is silly. they serve fundamentally different purposes (despite what Tory is telling us, Smart Track does rather little to relieve Yonge)
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The prior studied have looked at alignments similar to smart track and have found that they do little to relieve Yonge. In fact, DTRES said it would increase Yonge crowding.

Now that it's politically convenient to support SmartTrack, I think we'll see the models fudged with to show significant Yonge relief.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Seriously, we're talking about a 4 year difference. This is infrastructure that will last hundreds of years. Let's build it right, rather than fast.
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It seems like quite a long time to me.

I guess I can't look at it from a distance like others, thinking about "hundreds" of years later (which is a strangely large amount of time since the Yonge line is only 60 years old).

For me, I'd like transit to improve people's lives who are alive now. This includes me and it may be selfish but I'd like to use these lines. 4 years is a pretty major chunk of life in my opinion. 8 years vs 12 year construction to me is a big difference. I feel there is an urgency to expanding the transit system.
 
Are you planning to get dead soon?

Anyways this discussion is moot.

If our goals are relieving streetcars, relieving B-Y Station, relieving Yonge, then we build the Relief Line. If our goals are to get something built, then RER.

Personally, I prefer to do things properly rather than quickly. If somehow I manage to get dead in the four year wait, well oh well, it's not all about me.

What I fear is that this debate has been misrepresented. People seem to think SmartTrack is a replacement for RL. That is not what SmartTrack or RER will do.
 
I don't think you need to "die" soon to prefer a line that's built in 7-8 years vs a line to be built in 12-15 years in the future. I think a lot of average people in the early part of their lives would think that something built in 8 years is better than something built in 12 years.

I do think Toronto needs major transit expansion as soon as possible. GO RER in general and ST to me seems to affect a much larger segment of Toronto and more longer range and suburban travel options than DRL from Pape to St Andrew does. There are massive amounts of people throughout the GTA spending 1-3 hours a day in transit. To me GO RER seems to have a larger impact and sooner on more people's lives.

This is my personal preference # of years to completion is an important factor to me. I realize that your and many other's opinions differ from mine, which is OK.

This was also one of the reasons I liked at-grade LRT compared to subways, because the number of years of construction was significantly less (3-4 years vs 8-10 years). To me this factor at least as important as cost.
 
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DRL is also more like 10 years out than 12-15, it would be on the same schedule that the scarborough subway is on if it got funding tomorrow.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The prior studied have looked at alignments similar to smart track and have found that they do little to relieve Yonge. In fact, DTRES said it would increase Yonge crowding.
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Hmm? No it didn't... BD EBt-> Yonge SB volumes go from 9,150 to 6,480 vs. the reference network. With a full DRL that only goes down to 5,270.

The DRTES was also considering a Lakeshore RT. That isn't necessarily apples-apples with smart track, which travels more in BD's catchment area and has 2 vs. 1 interchanges with the BD line.

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IIRC, usage on Yonge, south of Bloor, increases slightly with Lakeshore RT.

Look at the table that summarizes all the options. You'll see that it has a slight negative correlation

Mind that this contraflow AM usage.
 
DRL takes roughly 12% of riders south of Bloor off of the Yonge line, but the amount of transfers occurring at bloor-Yonge drops by 60%. If you build the Full DRL, demand south of Bloor drops by 15%. Lakeshore Rapid transit drops it by 7%.
 
innsertnamehere said:
DRL takes roughly 12% of riders south of Bloor off of the Yonge line, but the amount of transfers occurring at bloor-Yonge drops by 60%. If you build the Full DRL, demand south of Bloor drops by 15%. Lakeshore Rapid transit drops it by 7%.
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Honestly, removing 60% of the transfers from B-Y just about justifies the Relief Line in my mind.

I'm surprised that these people aren't transferring back onto Yonge at King.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The prior studied have looked at alignments similar to smart track and have found that they do little to relieve Yonge. In fact, DTRES said it would increase Yonge crowding.
Click to expand...

Looks like what I said was slightly incorrect. The Lakeshore RT increases usage on the YUS, south of Bloor, but usage slightly decreases on Yonge, south of Bloor.

The Relief Line significantly reduces demand on Yonge south of Bloor, and also reduces demand on the YUS south of Bloor.
 
SmartTrack or DRL.... Porque no los dos?

They serve different purposes, both (I treat SmartTrack as rebranded GO-RER) are essential for the future of the city, and are worth the investments.
 
I kind of think that one of the best things that will help get the DRL built is to stop calling it the DRL. Most of Toronto don't understand the term and, for those who does understand, calling it the DOWNTOWN relief line is even worse in the eyes of the subway subway subway Scarborough crowd that voted Ford.

It's really hard to generate overwhelming support behind a project with a name that means very little to a large part of the city and out right offends another. It's the reason why the Eglinton LRT is called the CROSSTOWN or the Vaughan subway extension is also heavily advertised as an extension to York University. Like it or not, we live in a political world, so these things help.
 
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