Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[smallspy]

SmartTrack or DRL.... Porque no los dos?

They serve different purposes, both (I treat SmartTrack as rebranded GO-RER) are essential for the future of the city, and are worth the investments.

You're right, but the issue is that there is only one, limited, pot of money. Fund both, and no other projects -many of which are justifiable for their own purposes - for the foreseeable would be able to be built.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[BurlOak]

SmartTrack or DRL.... Porque no los dos?

They serve different purposes, both (I treat SmartTrack as rebranded GO-RER) are essential for the future of the city, and are worth the investments.

DRL is on its death bed. I think it is clear from both Tory and mostly the Province that the solution (at least the solution that will be implemented - even if it not the optimal solution) to Toronto's problems lie with GO-RER.

(and GO-RER is even worse of a name than DRL. It in no way gives the public (except those from France) any idea what purpose it will serve).

 

[Rainforest]

DRL is on its death bed. I think it is clear from both Tory and mostly the Province that the solution (at least the solution that will be implemented - even if it not the optimal solution) to Toronto's problems lie with GO-RER.

DRL may be resurrected as a branch of SmartTrack, sharing both the downtown rail tunnel and the type of trains.

 

[WislaHD]

Agreed. I think what we will most likely see will be the conversion of the Richmond Hill line as a new branch of SmartTrack.

We can even develop the SmartTrack system gradually, have SmartTrack align through the rail corridor at first. When we construct SmartTrack phase 2 on the Richmond Hill line as the DRL replacement, we can simultaneously construct the downtown tunnel and once that is finished, run both SmartTrack lines through it and achieve subway level frequencies in the downtown core.

I'm not opposed to this solution because the DRL if it ever gets built would likely just be phase 1. I want to see the DRL reach not just Eglinton (phase 3) but even further at the Shops at Don Mills at Lawrence&Don Mills within my lifetime.

 

[sixrings]

My concern with all this smart track talk and the less and less frequent DRL talk is that you cant replace the DRL which would provide a service for the same price as a TTC token with a Smart track service which will have some sort of premium attached to it and assume that the same amount of people will be happy to take it. I have friends who live beside several GO lines in Toronto whom all take TTC exclusively because of the cost factor. Pretty sure other people have the same experiences.

 

[ehlow]

My concern with all this smart track talk and the less and less frequent DRL talk is that you cant replace the DRL which would provide a service for the same price as a TTC token with a Smart track service which will have some sort of premium attached to it and assume that the same amount of people will be happy to take it. I have friends who live beside several GO lines in Toronto whom all take TTC exclusively because of the cost factor. Pretty sure other people have the same experiences.

One of the key promises of SmartTrack was that it would cost the same fare as the TTC and be part of the TTC system. That's why it would be on the TTC subway map.

 

[sixrings]

One of the key promises of SmartTrack was that it would cost the same fare as the TTC and be part of the TTC system. That's why it would be on the TTC subway map.

I'm really sorry for being really skeptical about political promises.

 

[ehlow]

I'm really sorry for being really skeptical about political promises.

Just stating a fact.. (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic), that was one of the key ideas & promises behind it.

Perhaps you could enlighten me on why the DRL will cost TTC fare, but SmartTrack cannot?

 

[sixrings]

Just stating a fact.. (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic), that was one of the key ideas & promises behind it.

Perhaps you could enlighten me on why the DRL will cost TTC fare, but SmartTrack cannot?

It is true I was being sarcastic. I just don't know how anyone can believe anything any politician says on transit. They switch plans every minute in whatever direction the voters point. I'm mainly skeptical about smart track because of the fact union can't handle the demand.which leads us to tunneling which costs significantly more than using the railcorridor. I am skeptical 905 riders are going to be very enthused their trains are adding more people and more stops causing the trips to belonger and more uncomfortable. If the whole ttc goes to a fare by distance system i can understand how this will work but istill think people are undr estimating the frustrations from 905 riders who like GO because it is fast has seats and less rift raft.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Just stating a fact.. (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic), that was one of the key ideas & promises behind it.

Perhaps you could enlighten me on why the DRL will cost TTC fare, but SmartTrack cannot?

Of course SmartTrack fair can cost as much as the TTC, but it doesn't mean it will. 8 years from now, when we may have a new provincial gov't, and John Tory is no longer mayor, there is essentially zero incentive to keep this promise, unless the TTC is running the line (which is unlikely).

 

[ehlow]

It is true I was being sarcastic. I just don't know how anyone can believe anything any politician says on transit. They switch plans every minute in whatever direction the voters point. I'm mainly skeptical about smart track because of the fact union can't handle the demand.which leads us to tunneling which costs significantly more than using the railcorridor. I am skeptical 905 riders are going to be very enthused their trains are adding more people and more stops causing the trips to belonger and more uncomfortable. If the whole ttc goes to a fare by distance system i can understand how this will work but istill think people are undr estimating the frustrations from 905 riders who like GO because it is fast has seats and less rift raft.

OK, understood. However, if you're skeptical that ST will cost TTC fare, then why do you trust that the DRL will be TTC fare? Or for that matter, that the Eglinton Crosstown will be TTC fare?

To me, when a new rapid transit line is conceived to be part of the TTC system and shown to be on the TTC subway map, the promise being made is that it will be TTC fare and you'll be able to transfer within the system for free. That applies to the DRL, Eglinton, Sheppard/Finch LRTs, and SmartTrack.

 

[ehlow]

Of course SmartTrack fair can cost as much as the TTC, but it doesn't mean it will. 8 years from now, when we may have a new provincial gov't, and John Tory is no longer mayor, there is essentially zero incentive to keep this promise, unless the TTC is running the line (which is unlikely).

I don't understand why you & others don't believe that SmartTrack will be TTC fare, yet no one questions that other transit lines like the DRL will be TTC fare.

Is it because of the distance covered? ST only goes slightly past the borders of Toronto, and the Spadina extension goes to Vaughan with TTC fare.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It is true I was being sarcastic. I just don't know how anyone can believe anything any politician says on transit. They switch plans every minute in whatever direction the voters point. I'm mainly skeptical about smart track because of the fact union can't handle the demand.which leads us to tunneling which costs significantly more than using the railcorridor. I am skeptical 905 riders are going to be very enthused their trains are adding more people and more stops causing the trips to belonger and more uncomfortable. If the whole ttc goes to a fare by distance system i can understand how this will work but istill think people are undr estimating the frustrations from 905 riders who like GO because it is fast has seats and less rift raft.

RE: Union,

I share your skepticism. It is doubtful that the station can handle the demand from SmartTrack and RER, without expensive upgrades to the station infrastructure. The current upgrades, particularly the upgrades to Union Station (TTC) on Line 1 were not designed with RER and SmartTrack in mind. It's likely that it will have to be redone again. I suppose we'll find out for sure when the studies are complete (assuming Metrolinx/TTC don't fudge with the numbers).

Recall that one of the reasons that the Relief Line was moved north from Union (TTC) to King was because the station would not handle the demand well.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't understand why you & others don't believe that SmartTrack will be TTC fare, yet no one questions that other transit lines like the DRL will be TTC fare.

Is it because of the distance covered? ST only goes slightly past the borders of Toronto, and the Spadina extension goes to Vaughan with TTC fare.

I don't think anyone here doubts that the TTC will own and operate the Relief Line. For that reason, we can say with near certainty that the Relief Line will use the typical TTC fare.

SmartTrack will likely be owned an operated by our Provincial overlords. They dictate fares, not the City of Toronto. If they decide that they want to raise fares, well too bad for us.

I'd be highly sceptical of any promises the Province makes. They're not known to keep their commitments, especially in changes of government.

 

[ehlow]

I don't think anyone here doubts that the TTC will own and operate the Relief Line. For that reason, we can say with near certainty that the Relief Line will use the typical TTC fare.

SmartTrack will likely be owned an operated by our Provincial overlords. They dictate fares, not the City of Toronto. If they decide that they want to raise fares, well too bad for us.

How is that any different from Eglinton Crosstown? It's completely owned & built by Metrolinx. On their website it's all Metrolinx logos, no TTC logos.

Yet, we believe it will cost TTC fare and be operated by the TTC because they've promised that.

When the SmartTrack project starts, it should be made clear that it is part of the TTC system. The fact that they added many stations within Toronto shows that the point of SmartTrack was to be used for travel within Toronto like the subway system. Why add a stop at Spadina or Liberty Village if a person can't travel from Union to Spadina by TTC fare? If SmartTrack doesn't cost TTC fare and is not operated by TTC, then that misses the whole main point of SmartTrack.