Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

Bayview does have the Glendon campus at Bayview&Lawrence, but I agree, the Don Mills corridor is much better with the Shops at Don Mills, Thorncliffe&Flemingdon Park, Fairview Mall, Seneca College and the ability for Sheppard East riders to transfer onto DRL without transfer.

What needs to be done east of Yonge is a direct bus route on Mt. Pleasant/Jarvis and Bayview to downtown.

Perhaps 44North's DRL alignment idea is what should be considered instead of the traditional DRL alignment:

That alignment misses all the people. The station at Broadview/Danforth isn't too bad - but there's already a station there. It completely misses the dense area around O'Connor/Broadview/Pape. The next station is near Millwood/Redway that is very undense. Then near the train tracks too far north of Thorncliffe to be that useful. And finally at Don Mills/Eglinton. It completely misses Thornecliffe/Flemingdon. It's just not a useful alignment. Nor do I see building above round railway track through both Riverdale West AND East parks as ever happening.

Quite frankly, it's hard to imagine a worse DRL alignment!!!

I'm not sure what this has to do with the SRT to LRT conversion. I'd think this should at a minimum go in a subway thread, preferably the DRL thread - and perhaps a fantasy thread.

 

[crs1026]

I'm not sure what this has to do with the SRT to LRT conversion.

Funny how the discussion digressed, yet it's all interconnected. I believe the digression began with views on whether Smarttrack/RER could be the high volume north-south transit spine within Scarboro (regardless of its merits as a new route to downtown), making both the Line 2 extension and/or SRT conversion unnecessary. If that is true, it would likely be far cheaper to build Smarttrack than the Line 2 subway extension. The money saved could be used for surface LRT on east-west routes as appropriate...again cheaper.

If one is absolutely convinced that Smarttrack/RER is a bad idea, either on its own merits or because a DRL makes it redundant, then I suppose one would reject this idea. That leaves the plan as a 2-way 15 minute-ish GO service on the current GO line and a debate about whether to extend Line 2 or replace the SRT with something.

- Paul

 

[WislaHD]

That alignment misses all the people. The station at Broadview/Danforth isn't too bad - but there's already a station there. It completely misses the dense area around O'Connor/Broadview/Pape. The next station is near Millwood/Redway that is very undense. Then near the train tracks too far north of Thorncliffe to be that useful. And finally at Don Mills/Eglinton. It completely misses Thornecliffe/Flemingdon. It's just not a useful alignment. Nor do I see building above round railway track through both Riverdale West AND East parks as ever happening.

Quite frankly, it's hard to imagine a worse DRL alignment!!!

I'm not sure what this has to do with the SRT to LRT conversion. I'd think this should at a minimum go in a subway thread, preferably the DRL thread - and perhaps a fantasy thread.

It's been addressed (by myself as it would seem!), I just didn't want to clog up the page with pictures. Here is the link to BurlOak's alignment changes.

 

[Hopkins123]

The best DRL alignment if adopting the SmartTrack proposal is this:



SmartTrack follows its proposed alignment to Queen and Degrassi before continuing west along Queen Street/Queensway to Park Lawn. As such this allows a DRL to follow the traditional Don Mills-Overlea-Pape-rail corridors alignment (well I use the Esplanade/Front Street through downtown).

 

[WislaHD]

Moving discussion to the Downtown Subway thread.

 

[Duck]

I just want to go on record saying how sad I am of what's happening to the rt. I really wish that years ago they had just made the commitment to a) buy more ICTS vehicles, b) refurbish the ones they have, and c) extend using the existing technology. I keep hearing that the line doesn't have the capacity to serve the route... but when I ride the system it has like 5-8 minute headways. So they just need more trains with shorter headways. Look to Vancouver. It really seems like the TTC just gave up on the rt, and everybody wants to sweep it under the rug and forget it ever existed.

Here are some photos I took during the last open house:

 

[TheTigerMaster]

LRT is more versatile. It was the right choice.

 

[Duck]

LRT is more versatile. It was the right choice.

...but wasn't the choice "subway"? Or has it changed yet again? I can't keep up.

 

[innsertnamehere]

LRT is more versatile. It was the right choice.

and its never going to happen in the current political climate. Give up on it, its good as dead. The Scarborough Subway is happening for better or for worse.

Personally I find the subway not nearly as bad as many like to make it out to be. Its faster, shorts the transfer, and creates less interruption with Smart Track / GO RER. Its ridership numbers scrape the bottom of subway viability, but it has more ridership than the other two subway projects we are building right now (Eglinton and Spadina).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

...but wasn't the choice "subway"? Or has it changed yet again? I can't keep up.

It's subway now.

and its never going to happen in the current political climate. Give up on it, its good as dead. The Scarborough Subway is happening for better or for worse.

Personally I find the subway not nearly as bad as many like to make it out to be. Its faster, shorts the transfer, and creates less interruption with Smart Track / GO RER. Its ridership numbers scrape the bottom of subway viability, but it has more ridership than the other two subway projects we are building right now (Eglinton and Spadina).

You sound like a politician. Anything can change on council.

I just want to go on record saying how sad I am of what's happening to the rt. I really wish that years ago they had just made the commitment to a) buy more ICTS vehicles, b) refurbish the ones they have, and c) extend using the existing technology. I keep hearing that the line doesn't have the capacity to serve the route... but when I ride the system it has like 5-8 minute headways. So they just need more trains with shorter headways. Look to Vancouver. It really seems like the TTC just gave up on the rt, and everybody wants to sweep it under the rug and forget it ever existed.

Here are some photos I took during the last open house:

View attachment 39831

View attachment 39832

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nice photos!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

...but wasn't the choice "subway"? Or has it changed yet again? I can't keep up.

Hello Duck,

I was talking to the ICTS vs. LRT debate. LRT is the superior option.

 

[nfitz]

It's subway now.

City council has indicated it's desire to change the plan from LRT to subway. And the federal government has promised to fund subway. However the existing agreement between the province and the city is to built LRT.

Council authorized the City Manager to negotiate a new agreement to build subway, but to date no agreement has been reached.

 

[JGHali]

and its never going to happen in the current political climate. Give up on it, its good as dead. The Scarborough Subway is happening for better or for worse.

Personally I find the subway not nearly as bad as many like to make it out to be. Its faster, shorts the transfer, and creates less interruption with Smart Track / GO RER. Its ridership numbers scrape the bottom of subway viability, but it has more ridership than the other two subway projects we are building right now
(Eglinton and Spadina).

Uh, Eglinton is LRT technology. Remarkably, this form of transit can be buried, elevated, at grade down a right-of-way, or any combination thereof.

 

[innsertnamehere]

doesn't change the fact that we are spending $4 billion on a 10km long tunnel (longer than Scarborough) for a transit line that will peak at roughly half the demand during rush hour.

Reminder of current and projected demands for different projects:

Line 1 today: 28,000
Line 2 today: 22,000
Full DRL (Eglinton to Dundas West): 14,000
Yonge extension to Highway 7: 11,500
DRL phase 1: 11,000
Scarborough Subway: 9,500 - 11,000
Spadina Extension: 7,500
Fully built Sheppard subway: 6,500 - 7,000
Eglinton LRT: 5,600
Sheppard / Finch LRT: somewhere around 3,000

 

[lead82]

doesn't change the fact that we are spending $4 billion on a 10km long tunnel (longer than Scarborough) for a transit line that will peak at roughly half the demand during rush hour.

Reminder of current and projected demands for different projects:

Line 1 today: 28,000
Line 2 today: 22,000
Full DRL (Eglinton to Dundas West): 14,000
Yonge extension to Highway 7: 11,500
DRL phase 1: 11,000
Scarborough Subway: 9,500 - 11,000
Spadina Extension: 7,500
Fully built Sheppard subway: 6,500 - 7,000
Eglinton LRT: 5,600
Sheppard / Finch LRT: somewhere around 3,000

This is why the Scarborough subway will be built and why Scarberians feel jaded. If York a Region is getting a subway with even lower numbers, Scarborough can argue why they have to make 2 transfers to get downtown while Vaughan residents can ride downtown on a single train. The politics have lined in favour of this extension and I have full confidence it will be built. Too much political capital has been invested to cancel it. Tory, Wynne and Harper will all want to be re-elected and progress needs to be made. I'm hoping that construction can begin before Tory seeks reelection in fall 2018.

Yes this line is grossly expensive but the ridership can be salvaged by simply rezoning around stations to increase density. McCowan and Sheppard can become a solid mixed use district with 2 transit lines and a highway being nearby. If Vaughan can rezone Highway 7 to create a downtown, surely Scarborough can be rezoned around stations to spur development. The area is under valued and could be a great place for affordable housing and affordable condos for families.