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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Urban planners, both land use planners and transportation planners, generally work of 20 or 30 year horizons. The city they are planning today won't come to fruition until 2044. Think what North York Centre was like in 1984 compared to today. The Yonge and Eglinton area is still growing as a result of the subway station that was built is 1953. Without that station it would be just like Dufferin and Eglinton. Don't expect the Scarborough Subway/LRT to result in massive instantaneous redevelopment along whichever route it is built. The transit line simply lays the foundation and make redevelopment possible at some point in the future.
 
howl said:
Urban planners, both land use planners and transportation planners, generally work of 20 or 30 year horizons. The city they are planning today won't come to fruition until 2044. Think what North York Centre was like in 1984 compared to today. The Yonge and Eglinton area is still growing as a result of the subway station that was built is 1953. Without that station it would be just like Dufferin and Eglinton. Don't expect the Scarborough Subway/LRT to result in massive instantaneous redevelopment along whichever route it is built. The transit line simply lays the foundation and make redevelopment possible at some point in the future.
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It was actually the Yonge streetcar way before 1954 that started development along Yonge street including Yonge & Eg (then called North Toronto) and NYCC.

I mean, obviously the subway encouraged further development when it was built, but the streetcar route created the initial development before the subway was built and gave immediate ridership for the subway when it was built.
 
Here's something I just realized about the Scarborough Subway.

I hear so many people who support the subway saying that they want it because it will eliminate the transfer point at Kennedy. But the problem with that thinking is that the TTC will probably be turning back every second train at Kennedy Station. At least half the riders will have to change vehicles regardless of what's built. And the wait for the subway at Kennedy will be longer than the wait for the LRV (if the LRT was built as planned), because the subway will operate at lower frequencies than the LRT. So I'm not sure if they'll be any significant time savings at Kennedy due to the elimination of the subway to LRT transfer.
 
Just like the spadina line north of st Clair, you would simply wait for a train that went all the way up. No need for a transfer.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Here's something I just realized about the Scarborough Subway.

I hear so many people who support the subway saying that they want it because it will eliminate the transfer point at Kennedy. But the problem with that thinking is that the TTC will probably be turning back every second train at Kennedy Station. At least half the riders will have to change vehicles regardless of what's built. And the wait for the subway at Kennedy will be longer than the wait for the LRV (if the LRT was built as planned), because the subway will operate at lower frequencies than the LRT. So I'm not sure if they'll be any significant time savings at Kennedy due to the elimination of the subway to LRT transfer.
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innsertnamehere said:
Just like the spadina line north of st Clair, you would simply wait for a train that went all the way up. No need for a transfer.
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You wait twice as long as someone at Eglinton though? People will find a way to complain.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Regardless of if you get off at Kennedy and transfer to a new train, or if you just wait for the train that will take you all the way up, you're still waiting the same length of time.
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Many people will probably be waiting at Yonge & Bloor for their Scarborough train, which it not gonna help the overcrowding.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Here's something I just realized about the Scarborough Subway.

I hear so many people who support the subway saying that they want it because it will eliminate the transfer point at Kennedy. But the problem with that thinking is that the TTC will probably be turning back every second train at Kennedy Station. At least half the riders will have to change vehicles regardless of what's built. And the wait for the subway at Kennedy will be longer than the wait for the LRV (if the LRT was built as planned), because the subway will operate at lower frequencies than the LRT. So I'm not sure if they'll be any significant time savings at Kennedy due to the elimination of the subway to LRT transfer.
Click to expand...

No. I'll simply wait for the train that's not short-turning. It's destination will be at the front of the train anyway.

That transfer though has become symbolic for a lot of riders as second class treatment. It's not just the fact that you have to climb two-three levels (does mezzanine count as a level?). It's the fact that you then get onto an overcrowded platform to get onto an overcrowded rickety SRT.

The fear with LRT is that the situation will repeat itself again in a few years. And the politicians haven't really done a great job of reassuring the public otherwise. Their entire focus on why subway shouldn't be built in Scarborough is "There's not enough demand." Of course, that's hard for the public to swallow when they ride an overcrowded SRT everyday (I'm talking average Joe not transitfan who gets that there's a diff between LRT, SRT and subway).

Personally, it didn't help me feel reassured when they say they want to short-turn every second LRT at Kennedy. Great. This is now exactly the same as the subway being short-turned at Kennedy. Only, with the subway, I end up closer to downtown and in due course closer to the DRL. With no subway extension, Scarborough riders won't even be able to connect to the DRL.
 
Symbolism aside, the case for replacing the SRT with a BD extension is stronger on the basis of ridership. It isn't a bad compromise. What I do regret is how the discussion around funding the project turned out to be a one-off affair.

AoD
 
Replacing the SRT with a BD extension is not a horrible decision like building the Spadina Extension to Vaughan. People like TheTigerMaster needs to stop crying
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Who the hell was crying? I was just saying that the elimination of the transfer isn't going to do much to help the people who were concerned about the transfer.
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I really doubt we'll get short-turning ... and that all the vehicles will run through. If only to stop people from standing at Yonge station waiting for the right train. The ridership levels at the current Scarborough RT station are already much higher than what's anticipated north of York.
 
Has the TTC mentioned short-turning at Kennedy at all? If not, then why is something entirely theoretical and not likely to happen being given discussion time? Oh wait, this is UT. Carry on.
 
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