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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

innsertnamehere said:
luckily once the construction contract for the surface portion of Eglinton is tendered in the next year or so it will finally be done.
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No, I think it just means the cost of cancellation will go up.

ehlow said:
Sigh. It will never end, the same people will be here arguing for it years and years indefinitely into the future, typing the same arguments again and again year after year.
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The only thing we know for sure is that the discontinuous LRT along the SRT corridor is so despised that it led to an extra $1.5B to $2.0B being spent to correct it. We also know that spending an extra $1.5B to $2.0B to extend the B-D subway is considered by by many non-Scarborough residents as a waste of money.
Thus, we know that if we proceed with either of the 2 options that are publicly released - then we will have continual arguments, debates and cancellations.

The one thing we do not know if how the grade separated option along Eglinton would be percieved by the public. It seems to have some support on this board, but until some politician actually wants to resolve the transit debate (by finding a compromise between the two polarized sides), we will continue to be stuck in transit arguments and debates.
 
My real hope is that an election is called and then either current or former Metrolinx employees come out and state that the elevated option was always the preferred option by Metrolinx, however, instructions from the Ministers and Premiers Office forced Metrolinx to not release any favourable reports related to elevation.
 
BurlOak said:
My real hope is that an election is called and then either current or former Metrolinx employees come out and state that the elevated option was always the preferred option by Metrolinx, however, instructions from the Ministers and Premiers Office forced Metrolinx to not release any favourable reports related to elevation.
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If you actually think that would happen, then your understanding of how politics, and the world works, are very, very misguided.
 
BurlOak said:
What you are saying is that it is $2B extra for going underground, and it could cost about $2B (or more) less if sections are elevated for the Malvern to Mount Dennis portion - provided they would have explored the option right from the start. There probably would have been maybe an extra $500M required for the Malvern to Pearson line - which is not very much on a $7B+ line.
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Well, this is what I meant:

- The current Eglinton plan costs $6.5 billion
- Doing all of Eglinton East underground would cost $8.5 billion
- Doing Eglinton East partly underground and partly elevated would be somewhere between $6.5 and $8.5 billion; perhaps $7.5 billion. But, certainly more than the current plan.

BurlOak said:
http://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/0...uing-this-technology-and-not-lrt-on-eglinton/

The use of the same technology which is currently servicing two of three lines on the Vancouver SkyTrain system on the west coast of Canada with Bombardier Innovia Metro/ART trains (or comparable) and with Linear Induction Motor track would provide the same cost savings that moving a portion of the LRT at-grade would and more, despite a need for complete grade separation of the line. It would provide faster, more reliable service and be more flexible in capacity expansion, and also remove the travel time penalty associated with at-grade LRT.
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That source has dubious credibility, given their outlandish claim that a 9-km in-median section will add 20 min to the end-to-end travel time. In fact, the difference in travel time will be about 7 min (just multiply 9 by 60, and then divide by the expected speed, 23 kph for in-median vs 32 kph for tunnel / el).

The cost of Skytrain and fully grade-separate LRT is similar, so no saving can be achieved by switching.
 
sixrings said:
seriously why are you so gullible... you seem to take every politicians word for fact. she says she will work with council. If you get a pro lrt council all of a sudden she will be supportive of lrt. All she is saying is that she is supportive of council making its decision.
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I'm just quoting what she said man, I'm not saying I believe it.
 
http://spacing.ca/toronto/2014/05/2...olitical-movements-behind-scarborough-subway/
SPACING INVESTIGATION, PART 1: The political movements behind the Scarborough Subway
May 28, 2014 | By John Lorinc
The proponents insist the $3.1 billion project, which will replace the derelict Scarborough RT, is an opportunity to bring rapid transit to a subway-free suburb.

Yet as Spacing will reveal in detail over the next few days, Premier Kathleen Wynne and transportation minister Glen Murray ignored their own technical experts and quietly encouraged Toronto city council to tear up an $8.4 billion transit master agreement signed by the two levels of government in November, 2012. The alternative: a costly three-stop subway instead of a fully-funded seven-stop LRT situated within walking distance of more residents in more communities.

Through a series of freedom of information (FOI) requests to the City of Toronto, Metrolinx and the Ontario government, Spacing has obtained dozens of internal documents, emails, and reports about the genesis and execution of the Scarborough subway decision. We will report on the contents over the next several days.

The documents show a government that blithely disregarded inconvenient financial and technical information to pursue a politically-motivated goal. They also reveal how a freelancing TTC chair, Karen Stintz, and a wildly vacillating city council ignored their own staff’s expert advice and committed Toronto taxpayers to a project whose true costs are still not fully understood.

These as-yet unknown expenses will be added to the $85 million in sunk costs associated with planning work done on the now cancelled Scarborough LRT/LRV maintenance-storage facility. Metrolinx has told the City of Toronto that it must absorb those expenses on top of the estimated $1 billion in additional cost associated with the subway project.

The provincial government and Metrolinx, moreover, redacted several key documents, including a June, 2013, power point presentation outlining the implications of the decision, prepared by senior Metrolinx planner Jack Collins.
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Part two coming tomorrow. Should be an interesting read. I wonder if it will blow up like the gas plant scandal.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Sounds like a biased article if I ever heard one.
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The Scarborough section of the Crosstown LRT had been studied to death. Initially it was part of the City's Transit City project - the line was subsequently taken over by Metrolinx. The planning and EA studies that the City initially prepared showed that the most effective and cost-efficient alternative to providing transit to Scarborough was using LRT. The decision to switch to a subway was entirely political - we all know that. It's less efficient and more costly, and will take substantially longer to build if it ever gets built. Metrolinx dropped it from the Crosstown project and gave the responsibility for transit in Scarborough back to the City on Rob Ford's request because Rob said the City would pay for it. The Spacing article is just presenting the documents that show what everyone already knows. The only embarrassing thing is that the Province went along with Rob Ford's poorly researched plan.
 
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