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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

innsertnamehere said:
because it would still cost hundreds of millions to simply "replace it with LRT", and the fact that there would be a subway taking the vast majority of ridership from it.
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With only the elevated portion, the new Mark II/III vehicles will fit without a problem. No curve at Kennedy, no tunnel at Ellesmere. First phase you could continue to run the existing Mark I with ATC. The line is less than half the length, plus ridership would be lower since the STC would use the subway - thus instantly half the stock could be used for spares. There is virtually no cost to continue to run this from Midland to McCowan. Phase 2 would involve an extension to Centennial - which would probably be combined with the elimination of the last mark I vehicle (i.e. Phase 2 would be a vehicle purchase and a short extension.
 
TOareaFan said:
I get your point...and it is a good one...so no need to exagerate it.....which station on this schedule had 5 minute frequencies?

http://www.gotransit.com/timetables...-10-11&corridorname=Lakeshore West&parentid=1
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Union station: 8:05, 8:11, 8:15, 8:25, 8:32, 8:33am on the Lake Shore West schedule. 8:11 is left of the 8:05 arrival, it's easy to miss.

6 trains in a 28 minute period by the schedule; a touch under 5 minutes between trains on average. GO expects ridership to double over the next couple decades so this type of scheduling will become more common and include stations other than Union and lines other than Lake Shore West. Shorter single-level cars will struggle to meet that capacity.

Those 6 trains unload close to 12,000 passengers at Union; that's a peak load of 24,000 passengers per hour and, again, GO expects ridership to increase significantly.

Oakville gets pretty close (07:35, 07:47, 07:50, and 07:58) with a touch under 6 minute headways.
 
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Hipster Duck said:
Ok, I understand. Replacing the N-S section with a park would be colossally stupid, but replacing the E-W elevated section would be merely a shame. I still think that a transit corridor with built-in stations should remain a transit corridor. Replace it with LRT, but you won't be able to replicate a completely grade-separated, elevated structure with stations for cheap, so why junk what we already have?

The N-S alignment parallel to the Stouffvile sub only has a purpose as a transit corridor. If they go ahead and build the subway under McCowan, the old RT alignment should still be retained for LRT, or even GO, if necessary.
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The N-S section will be used for GO if needed. If not needed for GO, then I would think of building a Kennedy LRT line that runs in the former SRT corridor from Kennedy to Ellesmere or to Progress, and then switches to Kennedy median.

The E-W section, aka the guideway, is a bit iffy, and some questions will need to be answered:

1) Which mode will be used in the corridor to Centennial Progress campus? If it is LRT, then it makes sense to retain a short elevated section around Scarborough Centre, and switch to street median just east of McCowan. But if it is BRT, it may be easier to stay at grade and run right into the bus terminal which happens to be at level zero.

2) Is the guideway still structurally sound, and suitable for the selected mode?

3) How will a line running on the guideway connect to the subway station? If the guideway is at level +1 and the subway is at -2 (-1 is mezzanine), then it will replicate the today's Kennedy transfer problem.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Okay, what if we build the subway through the RT corridor to Malvern?
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I can see the new subway going to Finch and McCowan before Malvern. It will be probably easier to make a new line straight up to the Woodside Square area, which is fairly high density. If subway money were no object, a Finch "pre metro" from Woodside to Yonge and then linking with the FWLRT to the airport would be a second crosstown line showing great promise.
 
skylyte said:
I can see the new subway going to Finch and McCowan before Malvern. It will be probably easier to make a new line straight up to the Woodside Square area, which is fairly high density. If subway money were no object, a Finch "pre metro" from Woodside to Yonge and then linking with the FWLRT to the airport would be a second crosstown line showing great promise.
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Finch and McCowan will always make more sense thatn Malvern. And I say that as someone resident in Malvern.
 
According to a Forum Research poll, the Transit City SRT replacement is more popular than any of the Scabrorough Subway proposals

The LRT option was approved by 38 per cent of respondents, while 27 favoured the city’s three-stop subway to Sheppard. Only 10 per cent preferred the two-stop subway to the Scarborough City Centre that was proposed by Transportation Minister Glen Murray. (The rest answered “none of these” or “don’t know”.)
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And the LRT is has much greater support among transit riders than the subway option does. However drivers tend to support the subway.

The LRT, which would have had seven stops, was more popular among poll respondents who already take transit. Forty-four per cent favoured that option among the three. Only 29 per cent of drivers indicated a preference for the LRT.
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TorStar

Looks like the people of Toronto may not want subways, subways, subways after all.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So the subway will still happen? SMH. With Ford one foot out the door it should be done for.
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But both Council and the Liberals wanted subways. Both Metrolinx and TTC said that the subway plan is better than the LRT plan. Without a new Council or new provincial government, there seems to be no way that all the above parties would change the plan back.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Ford did not "lead" the charge for subway. Karen Stintz did the "leading", Ford (both) were only cheerleaders.
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BurlOak said:
But both Council and the Liberals wanted subways. Both Metrolinx and TTC said that the subway plan is better than the LRT plan. Without a new Council or new provincial government, there seems to be no way that all the above parties would change the plan back.
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BurlOak, I think you will agree then, It should go to McCowan and Finch, not sheppard. They need to get more funding.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So the subway will still happen? SMH. With Ford one foot out the door it should be done for.
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Every Ford policy isn't going to just magically fade away with him gone. Even with Ford's base weakened it would still take a 2/3 vote to overturn anything in the short turn and these policies aren't just Ford's but a majority of council's.
 
datamouse said:
Every Ford policy isn't going to just magically fade away with him gone. Even with Ford's base weakened it would still take a 2/3 vote to overturn anything in the short turn and these policies aren't just Ford's but a majority of council's.
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It depends on who replaces Ford, since I assume he will be forced to resign and there will be either an early election or someone will be appointed. If one of the more right wing councillors becomes interim mayor maybe city council will reconsider the Sheppard subway decision. It was largely because Ford's plan for paying for the Sheppard subway was ridiculous (getting the "private sector" to pay for it) that it was rejected. Both the Sheppard subway and SRT subway decisions were close votes, so a compromise (most likely, Sheppard subway + rebuiding ICTS on the SRT) could get proposed.
 
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