Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[BurlOak]

Maybe they will finally realize that Eglinton elevated and ICTS + SRT ICTS costs about the same as BD extension + Eglinton not grade separated.

I would say the SRT/ECLRT combined would be more like $1B less than what is currently planned.

The SRT as LRT is about $2.0B, whereas the current subway plan is $3.5B. The elevated portion of Eglinton would probably be about $300M to $400M (net). If you go all the way to Malvern, it would still be well over $0.5B less than the current Subway plan.

 

[BurlOak]

If everyone decided on this way back when...

Didn't someone say that it is never too late to do the right thing.

 

[doady]

They should preserve the Scarborough RT for future GO Train service. Imagine GO Train service from Union to SCC, Malvern and Pickering.

 

[Rainforest]

Okay, I don't like to throw out declarative sentences like "the worst", or "the stupidest" but, if this came to fruition, this would be the stupidest, most shortsighted urban planning mistake since the Spadina expressway.

Whatever you think about the RT, it is a fully grade-separated functional rapid transit line, complete with tracks, stations, a built-in transfer to the subway system and a maintenance centre.

The area it travels through is entirely low density, postwar industrial and, at some points, there are no public access spots for 2 kilometers.

Who would want to go to this park? And why would we abandon a perfectly good rail rapid transit line? This would be like buying a bottle of 18 year-old Speyside and dumping the contents down the drain because you like how the empty bottle looks on your shelf.

To my knowledge, they are talking about converting the elevated (E-W) section only; in part, to avoid the costs of demolishing the old guideway.

A case can be made for using both E-W and N-S sections for transit purposes (GO, LRT, or BRT); but the park idea is not that stupid.

 

[BurlOak]

They should preserve the Scarborough RT for future GO Train service. Imagine GO Train service from Union to SCC, Malvern and Pickering.

GO trains are heavier, so the entire elevated structure would have to be removed and replaced anyways.

The N-S portion could be given to GO, but I understand that 2 tracks could fit anyways without removing the SRT. The E-W portion could be retained for a future LRT line - from Kennedy to Centennial.

 

[doady]

Sorry, I meant preserve the RT corridor. Any GO service using the corridor would probably use a new elevated structure. I also don't think GO needs to use 10-12 bilevels trains all the time. If they start implementing frequent all-day service everywhere I don't think it would be wise or necessary to use such huge trains.

 

[Hipster Duck]

To my knowledge, they are talking about converting the elevated (E-W) section only; in part, to avoid the costs of demolishing the old guideway.

A case can be made for using both E-W and N-S sections for transit purposes (GO, LRT, or BRT); but the park idea is not that stupid.

Ok, I understand. Replacing the N-S section with a park would be colossally stupid, but replacing the E-W elevated section would be merely a shame. I still think that a transit corridor with built-in stations should remain a transit corridor. Replace it with LRT, but you won't be able to replicate a completely grade-separated, elevated structure with stations for cheap, so why junk what we already have?

The N-S alignment parallel to the Stouffvile sub only has a purpose as a transit corridor. If they go ahead and build the subway under McCowan, the old RT alignment should still be retained for LRT, or even GO, if necessary.

 

[innsertnamehere]

because it would still cost hundreds of millions to simply "replace it with LRT", and the fact that there would be a subway taking the vast majority of ridership from it.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Well, the line wouldn't be oriented to be a duplicate of the subway extension, it would do all of the things the subway can't do - like serve E-W Scarborough transit needs. Have we completely forgotten about serving Centennial college? What about if the Sheppard LRT just ducked down east of Kennedy and continued on this alignment, since SCC is a much better interchange than Sheppard and McCowan, in the first place?

It just seems ridiculous to abandon a perfectly good, grade-separated ROW. We only have 69 km of these, and we're effectively junking 10% of it.

 

[rbt]

Ok, I understand. Replacing the N-S section with a park would be colossally stupid, but replacing the E-W elevated section would be merely a shame. I still think that a transit corridor with built-in stations should remain a transit corridor. Replace it with LRT, but you won't be able to replicate a completely grade-separated, elevated structure with stations for cheap, so why junk what we already have?

Lake Shore West GO line has under 5 minute frequencies during morning rush today (8:05 am to 8:30am) with 12-car bilevels; and they're full.

They may not need them all the time, but if they need a large train for a single run then the infrastructure must be built around it or we leave passengers behind.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Lake Shore West GO line has under 5 minute frequencies during morning rush today (8:05 am to 8:30am) with 12-car bilevels; and they're full.

They may not need them all the time, but if they need a large train for a single run then the infrastructure must be built around it or we leave passengers behind.

I think you might be trying to address somebody else.

 

[TOareaFan]

Lake Shore West GO line has under 5 minute frequencies during morning rush today (8:05 am to 8:30am) with 12-car bilevels; and they're full.

They may not need them all the time, but if they need a large train for a single run then the infrastructure must be built around it or we leave passengers behind.

I get your point...and it is a good one...so no need to exagerate it.....which station on this schedule had 5 minute frequencies?

http://www.gotransit.com/timetables...-10-11&corridorname=Lakeshore West&parentid=1

 

[innsertnamehere]

Oakville GO has a 7:47 train and a 7:50 train. Then a 7:58 train. That is a 3 minute difference.

 

[Electrify]

When I used to use the SRT it was almost always at crush capacity. So seeing as we already have a "light" capacity rail transit line through the corridor, then one could suggest that it is time to invest in a "high/heavy" capacity rail transit line.

However too echo Hipster's comment, the frequency on the line is at best every 4 minutes. If the former City of Scarborough and new City of Toronto had invested in more and longer trains, then maybe we wouldn't see so many people wanting a subway cause the current line could handle the current demands flawlessly. Simply put, there was a lot of opportunity for growth on the current infrastructure without the need to replace it with something new; whether it be a subway or an open source light metro.

On the other hand, if we had 5+ car trains running on the line every 60 seconds at crush capacity, then I would have to disagree that a subway extension would be a waste of money or not needed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Oakville GO has a 7:47 train and a 7:50 train. Then a 7:58 train. That is a 3 minute difference.

Theoretically speaking, how frequently will GO be able to run their trains once they're electrified?