Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TheTigerMaster]

It gets political when there's a shortage of money. Then, hard choices needs to be made and everybody have their own idea or brilliant ideas *cough* Transit City *cough*

There isn't a shortage of money. We just like to pretend there is. The City of Toronto alone could easily generate $20 - $30 Billion for transit investments while maintaing our low taxes.

 

[Tuscani01]

The $330 million for Sheppard East has been re-committed. Glad to hear that money wasn't pulled from other projects to make this happen, but still disappointed that we are spending $2 billion on a subway that will only make the Yonge line more overcrowded, and even more unreliable than it is today for people who live and work downtown.

 

[rbt]

The $330 million for Sheppard East has been re-committed. Glad to hear that money wasn't pulled from other projects to make this happen, but still disappointed that we are spending $2 billion on a subway that will only make the Yonge line more overcrowded, and even more unreliable than it is today for people who live and work downtown.

For downtown residents, it really only impacts people who live around Bloor/Yonge that don't want a 30 minute walk to the financial district. There is lots of room south of College.


The Relief Line is a necessity but it's not going to do anything for most downtown residents.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The $330 million for Sheppard East has been re-committed. Glad to hear that money wasn't pulled from other projects to make this happen, but still disappointed that we are spending $2 billion on a subway that will only make the Yonge line more overcrowded

The sooner the better. Only makes the DRL a more pressing issue.

and even more unreliable than it is today for people who live and work downtown.

I'd argue that the impact on downtown residents is less than that of people coming from elsewhere. We'll have potentially north as Sheppard-Yonge and certainly at Eglinton-Yonge. This is really an issue that affects the whole city.

 

[kEiThZ]

Seems that it paid off for council to call out the Feds and I truly hope this is an eye opener for council. They MUST keep the pressure on. Like I had said a few weeks earlier, there was no way the Feds would let the Liberals make a fool of them and now, they will get all the credit.

Like the US and European countries, the Feds MUST commit to Public transit investments and projects on a regular basis...not once in a while to win votes and save face.

I'm proud "for once" that our city council acted with leadership and might have paved the way for other major Canadian cities to put additional pressure for a National Transit fund/plan.

With Montreal extending their blue line, I expect Montreal and the province to do the same to help finance their subway extension.

It gets political when there's a shortage of money. Then, hard choices needs to be made and everybody have their own idea or brilliant ideas *cough* Transit City *cough*

Funny that in cities like New York, Paris and London, everyone just seems to just agree on what needs to be done since their respective Federal level is more than ready to invest...unlike here

The context is different in Europe. They don't have anything as empowered provincially like our provincial governments. In Europe, the feds also fund elementary schools and local roads in certain government structures. Moreover, the feds have drastically reduced taxes over the last few years. I don't see any reason they should contribute a cent to be honest. By reducing taxes, they have given the provinces the room to raise provincial taxes and raise the revenues required to build infrastructure. That provincial politicians don't have the cojones to tell voters that they need to raise taxes is the real issue.

That said, I'm glad this is finally being done. 30 years too late. But better late than never.

 

[innsertnamehere]

feds screamed bloody murder when wynne proposed raising the hst.

 

[kEiThZ]

This is new money, the $330 million for the Sheppard LRT is still on. What happens to that line, no one knows.

It gets built.

The Feds won't touch that one and therefore Rob Ford can't win on it. It's simply much too expensive to finish Sheppard as a subway, even if it's just to McCowan. So the feds won't pitch in and Rob Ford will put up a sort of offence before letting it slide. Getting rid of the transfer at Kennedy and extending the subway right up to north Scarborough will pretty much win him most of Scarborough. He has no need to fight the SELRT now.

 

[kEiThZ]

feds screamed bloody murder when wynne proposed raising the hst.

Of course. In a slump, no federal government would want taxes raised in their most populous province with higher than average unemployment.

That does not mean, she was not empowered to do it.

Moreover, if I recall correctly, there was discussion about the feds raising the HST 1% across the board and redirecting that towards infrastructure.

 

[gweed123]

Does the city plan for the B-D extension not necessitate the Sheppard LRT? I mean, cancelling the LRT along Sheppard would eliminate the Sheppard-McCowan transfer/transit hub that precipitated the need for the subway to reach Sheppard in the first place. If Ford and Co. want the subway extension, then they have no choice but to ensure the SELRT goes forward as well.

As for the DRL, does this funding announcement not ensure a more vigorous pursuit of the project? I'm not sure I buy the notion that because the Feds have committed funds to the B-D extension that they cannot possibly assist in financing the DRL. Revenue tools notwithstanding, it would be a big mistake to vouch for this project and NOT support the long-overdue DRL.

Very good points. I think there's one thing that people are missing though: it doesn't have to be the Federal Cons who pony up for the DRL. The Federal Liberals could very well make it an election plank, along with transit funding for other cities. I'm thinking particularly Ottawa, who by 2015 will have the Western LRT extension EA completed, and Vancouver, who will be looking for funding for the Broadway-UBC corridor.

The Liberals could also make a dent in the 905 by stepping up to the plate on some big 905 projects (Yonge North Subway extension anybody?). The Federal Conservatives are unlikely to invest in transit, but 2015 is right around the corner, so we may see some interesting policy moves by other parties in order to win the 'transit vote'.

 

[Adjei]

The context is different in Europe. They don't have anything as empowered provincially like our provincial governments. In Europe, the feds also fund elementary schools and local roads in certain government structures. Moreover, the feds have drastically reduced taxes over the last few years. I don't see any reason they should contribute a cent to be honest. By reducing taxes, they have given the provinces the room to raise provincial taxes and raise the revenues required to build infrastructure. That provincial politicians don't have the cojones to tell voters that they need to raise taxes is the real issue.

That said, I'm glad this is finally being done. 30 years too late. But better late than never.

What about the United States? The feds there contribute way more to transit and transportation than the ones here.

 

[Eug]

1. We don't know how much additional money the federal government will commit.

$660 million.

That's in addition to the $330 million being re-committed for the Sheppard East LRT.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This B-D extension should kill any talk about extending the Sheppard Stub. Glad we can finally put it to rest.

There will be a plan to bring Sheppard to McCowan. Watch.

 

[kEiThZ]

What about the United States? The feds there contribute way more to transit and transportation than the ones here.

And the feds don't contribute nationally to health care over there. And if you exclude defence, the US federal government is proportionally a lot smaller than ours. You really want that model?

 

[kEiThZ]

Very good points. I think there's one thing that people are missing though: it doesn't have to be the Federal Cons who pony up for the DRL. The Federal Liberals could very well make it an election plank, along with transit funding for other cities. I'm thinking particularly Ottawa, who by 2015 will have the Western LRT extension EA completed, and Vancouver, who will be looking for funding for the Broadway-UBC corridor.

The Liberals could also make a dent in the 905 by stepping up to the plate on some big 905 projects (Yonge North Subway extension anybody?). The Federal Conservatives are unlikely to invest in transit, but 2015 is right around the corner, so we may see some interesting policy moves by other parties in order to win the 'transit vote'.

If the Conservatives are smart, they will put all future GTHA transit money in the next few years towards turbocharging GO's development. For example, advancing plans for electrification. That's the biggest bang for the buck. On both transit and votes.

 

[kEiThZ]

There will be a plan to bring Sheppard to McCowan. Watch.

People keep saying this. I don't see it. A subway extension to McCowan would be at least $5 billion. That's a lot of money. Even the feds don't want to pitch in to that. I could sooner see them pitching in to a conversion of the stubway to LRT than an extension of it.

And I can actually see a conversion happen. Combine it with some in-fill stations and it's not a tough pitch.