Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[ssiguy2]

This is hysterical.

Toronto is truly the only place on the planet that when given money with no expectation of contributing one dime, it can't even figure out what to do with it and the result is the free money has now cost them $100 million due to their own stupidity.

It's kinda funny...............Miller demanded LRT or nothing, Ford demands subways or nothing and the end result is nothing. Metrolinx is corrupt, inept, couldn't keep to a budget if it's life depended on it, and is unaccountable but in this particular case they got it right............City Hall stated they didn't want their plan so it rightfully tells City Hall that they don't get the money.

 

[TOareaFan]

This is hysterical.

Toronto is truly the only place on the planet that when given money with no expectation of contributing one dime, it can't even figure out what to do with it and the result is the free money has now cost them $100 million due to their own stupidity.

It's kinda funny...............Miller demanded LRT or nothing, Ford demands subways or nothing and the end result is nothing. Metrolinx is corrupt, inept, couldn't keep to a budget if it's life depended on it, and is unaccountable but in this particular case they got it right............City Hall stated they didn't want their plan so it rightfully tells City Hall that they don't get the money.

Slightly off topic but you raised something there....is Metrolinx corrupt? First I have heard that accusation and find it a bit disturbing.

 

[Adjei]

This is hysterical.

Toronto is truly the only place on the planet that when given money with no expectation of contributing one dime, it can't even figure out what to do with it and the result is the free money has now cost them $100 million due to their own stupidity.

It's kinda funny...............Miller demanded LRT or nothing, Ford demands subways or nothing and the end result is nothing. Metrolinx is corrupt, inept, couldn't keep to a budget if it's life depended on it, and is unaccountable but in this particular case they got it right............City Hall stated they didn't want their plan so it rightfully tells City Hall that they don't get the money.

Any way to prove they are corrupt? corruption is a serious allegation.

 

[Adjei]

It's funny how the mayor and his cronies talk about fiscal responsibility and respect for taxpayers but have no problem wasting $85 million on the sunk costs for this project.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's funny how the mayor and his cronies talk about fiscal responsibility and respect for taxpayers but have no problem wasting $85 million on the sunk costs for this project.

I think it is funny when these things get over-politicized. There is nothing unique in the Mayor's stand/position here.

No government (in my memory) ever got elected on a platform of fiscal irresponsibility or disrespect for taxpayers....but lots of governments (in my memory) have unwound projects/programs that their predecessors, either, started or endorsed....at cost.

That said, I think some congratulations must go to Metrolinx for pausing the LRT at this time....too often the dogma gets in the way of common sense and the project just ploughs ahead and the sunk cost number just keeps getting bigger.

 

[Adjei]

I think it is funny when these things get over-politicized. There is nothing unique in the Mayor's stand/position here.

No government (in my memory) ever got elected on a platform of fiscal irresponsibility or disrespect for taxpayers....but lots of governments (in my memory) have unwound projects/programs that their predecessors, either, started or endorsed....at cost.

That said, I think some congratulations must go to Metrolinx for pausing the LRT at this time....too often the dogma gets in the way of common sense and the project just ploughs ahead and the sunk cost number just keeps getting bigger.

There's nothing unique in changing an already funded project for a subway which is not funded and we do not even know the final cost. Meanwhile we are on the hook for the sunk costs. The federal government is not going to pony up the money required by the September deadline. All of these happenings are delay tactics and nothing will get built. I wouldn't be surprised if the next move in this debacle is if the province pulls the funding and uses it for a different project as someone above suggested.

 

[drum118]

Slightly off topic but you raised something there....is Metrolinx corrupt? First I have heard that accusation and find it a bit disturbing.

It not corrupt, but mismanagement with blind folders on since it mostly GO personal who have a narrow tunnel vision and no idea what cost means. With the president of GO gone or about to go, maybe someone will be hire that has a real understanding how RR & buses should be run to meet customers service demand. I won every battle with the President of GO for over 7 years and he has yet to prove me wrong. Nice to see him go. The CEO puts a spin on things to defect the real statement for various items.

Very few projects have been brought in on time or under as well on budget.

One thing Metrolinx has done right is being an open shop where union and non union company can bid on the same contract as well doing the work, something TTC doesn't do as well the city. TTC is looking at this now.

You need proof to make the corrupt statement, otherwise its slander subject to a lawsuit.

 

[BurlOak]

On the other point I wonder if the benefits of consolidating the technology to LRT all over Toronto really is that much better than just making the route compatible for newer vehicles. At least thanks to Vancouver there's a production line for MKIII vehicles now.

Having separate special SRT vehicles for a 6km line seems to be something that would not be desirable. Having the SRT/ECLRT going from Malvern to YYZ (+/- 40 km) would already be a large enough fleet in itself (> half the existing subway length) that there would probably be next to no benefit in forcing it to be LRT to match other lines (that have yet to be built).

 

[TOareaFan]

This does, I think, create a political quandary for Minister Murray. When he sided with the subway he did quite clearly make the statement:

“People in Scarborough will no longer be treated as second-class citizens when it comes to transit,”

If they have to go back to the LRT that this statement mocks/derides will he lead with "Sorry Scarborough, you are second class once again"?

 

[Adjei]

This does, I think, create a political quandary for Minister Murray. When he sided with the subway he did quite clearly make the statement:

“People in Scarborough will no longer be treated as second-class citizens when it comes to transit,”

If they have to go back to the LRT that this statement mocks/derides will he lead with "Sorry Scarborough, you are second class once again"?

The province pitched in their part, time for the others to put up their share.

 

[Palma]

You need proof to make the corrupt statement, otherwise its slander subject to a lawsuit.

Give me a break. Look at ORNGE, Ehealth, Gas scandals and you are saying prof is needed? Nevermind the countless consultants that are hired by government and crown corporations and know they can charge whatever because it is government and they have the money to pay whatever is charged and they pay it. Then there are kickbacks. An italian company won a contract to supply ORNGE with helicopters, yet Ornge is handed money. Come on. Then there are all the developers and councillors.

 

[nfitz]

Give me a break. Look at ORNGE, Ehealth, Gas scandals and you are saying prof is needed.

Surely defending a slanderous comment about Metrolinx being corrupt by pointing to agencies that have no relationship to Metrolinx is off-topic.

 

[ssiguy2]

I love how Torontonians bring up things like gas plants and Orange as proof of government waste and how if the money wasn't wasted there it could have been spent on Toronto transit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are there not 10.5 million Ontarians who don't live in Toronto? The taxpayers of Leamington, London, and Lindsay got just as ripped off as Torontonians but they sure as hell aren't getting 100% of their transit/roads paid for by Queen's Park. How can these boondoggles be used as an excuse for Toronto to get more money but somehow that logic doesn't apply once you leave the city boundaries?

This obscene and pathetic situation is caused ultimately by Torontonians themselves although saying such a thing is considered heresy in polite company. Everything that is wrong in Toronto is everyone else's fault and hence everyone except Torontonians should have to pay. Oh but wait it's not OUR fault but rather the politicians............well the politicians didn't get there by themselves. The hicks of the province , you know the one's that live east of the Zoo, north of Steeles, and west of the 427, just don't understand the importance of transit to Toronto as they just drive around with SUVs all day. Of course the hicks that Torontonians expect to pick up the tab weren't stupid enough to elect such a moron for a mayor, gutless wonders as councillors, and planners who wouldn't know fiscal responsibility if it slapped them in the face.

Instead of complaining at the politicians which they wilfully voted in or bitching at Queen's Park demanding more money from the rest of the Ontario taxpayers because they don't feel they should have to contribute a nickel to anything, maybe Torontonians should look in the mirror to find out who is at the root of Toronto's problems. Maybe that will help them come to the radical realization that most of the planet figure out at the same time as the wheel was invented...............sometimes you have to pay for things yourself.

 

[innsertnamehere]

In torontos defence it heavily subsidizes the surrounding municipalities, whether that be union station upgrades mainly benefitting suburban commuters, TTC subsidization for a large percentage of suburban users, (this does go both ways, but I have a feeling that Toronto gets the short end of the stick overall) and 3 freeways that should be under provincial control but are maintained by Toronto. Not to mention toronto maintains the subway network, at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, which is a huge regional piece of infrastructure.

I am still surprised that highway 7/8 in Kitchener is provincially owned, I always thought it would be municipal. If it was in Toronto it would almost certainly be municipal.

Also, Ottawa gets huge subsidies only because it is the federal capital.

Basically, Kitchener sticks $300 million in capital fees once, but gets free highways forever. (They also get ownership of the LRT, and gain access to the equity involved in it)

Toronto gets huge annual upkeep costs that heavily subsidies regional travel, and doesn't even get ownership of the LRT lines. Heck, it barely got the contract to operate the damn lines. It is important to note that Metrolinx will be maintaining ownership of the LRT lines after completion.

 

[Palma]

Surely defending a slanderous comment about Metrolinx being corrupt by pointing to agencies that have no relationship to Metrolinx is off-topic.

Then you have your head buried in the sand or you work at Metrolinx.