Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[afransen]

I believe a city report suggested that Scarborough was unlikely to change much from it's low density character,

If only the city could allow intensification in the yellow belt.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Unless they will ever start to work on the Midtown GO line...

See link.

As of the time of this writing (December 28, 2020), the Midtown line is not a high priority for Metrolinx, but it is in the books. Such a line would reduce the system's reliance on Union Station, and it would improve commutes across the centre of Toronto and into northeastern Scarborough. While other projects jostle for priority over the next twenty years, who is to say what may be possible. It may not be long before passengers return to the historic and iconic North Toronto station.

 

[syn]

If only the city could allow intensification in the yellow belt.

That will be a difficult, if not impossible sell when the line runs mostly through suburban residential neighbourhoods.

As it's been established, there's an expectation these suburban extensions can be built with minimal sacrifice and/or disruption of the built environment.

 

[syn]

Not necessarily downtown. To cross the city from Etobicoke to Scarborough north of Eglinton is a 2hr trip in many cases on transit even with the frequent bus network and rapid transit (but a lack of it until FWLRT and ECLRT come online). Especially trying to reach Humber campuses, Centennial, or UTSC.

It's a fairly long trip. Even if we're looking at subway timings, Kipling to Kennedy is about 50 minutes.

Would be great to have a faster option. It's something we need, that's for sure. We're going to have to change the way we build things.

 

[afransen]

That will be a difficult, if not impossible sell when the line runs mostly through suburban residential neighbourhoods.

As it's been established, there's an expectation these suburban extensions can be built with minimal sacrifice and/or disruption of the built environment.

My point is that any dearth of intensification due to the subway extension is purely a matter of policy and political will. It is odd that the City would lament it when it is within their power to do something about it.

 

[syn]

My point is that any dearth of intensification due to the subway extension is purely a matter of policy and political will. It is odd that the City would lament it when it is within their power to do something about it.

I don't think the city was lamenting it as much as they were stating a clear reality.

The same political will that led to these extensions being supported is exactly why these areas are unlikely to be intensified.

 

[superelevation]

As a former Scarborough resident I took the RT daily. I am sorry if my tone frustrates you.

Scarborough could have had a network of LRTs to help make getting to the subway easier. However there was a lot of talk here and other places how Scarborough was being neglected and that it too deserved a subway. An attack on the poor was the narrative. Then there was a bunch of discussion even at city council which showed how much development would have to happen to justify a subway extension. But Scarborough residents again said sure bring on the density. Now instead of density we’re talking about a parking garage? Isn’t that the exact opposite of what we want beside subway stations?

I understand Scarborough may feel that it hasn’t been serviced well in transit over the years but it sure seems like give an inch and take a mile.

A network of LRT's only marginally faster than the buses they replace, exactly what people already using transit want their tax dollars spent on

 

[sixrings]

A network of LRT's only marginally faster than the buses they replace, exactly what people already using transit want their tax dollars spent on

That’s in your opinion. The data shows most Scarborough ttc rides start and end in Scarborough. If I was out there still I would much prefer a lrt network than spending all our money on one line. LRTs do have added benefits of busses from being in their own lane, being more comfortable to ride on(not weeving in and out of traffic) larger so better chance of a seat, and farther transit stop spacing. Not too far but not too close. But I get it. You guys don’t like not grade separated transit.

 

[ARG1]

That’s in your opinion. The data shows most Scarborough ttc rides start and end in Scarborough. If I was out there still I would much prefer a lrt network than spending all our money on one line. LRTs do have added benefits of busses from being in their own lane, being more comfortable to ride on(not weeving in and out of traffic) larger so better chance of a seat, and farther transit stop spacing. Not too far but not too close. But I get it. You guys don’t like not grade separated transit.

Its not an opinion. With slower acceleration, slower top speeds, and longer dwell times, a lot of that time balances out especially during the off peak. When Vancouver was studying the Surrey LRT, they found out that compared to the existing R1 bus service (BRT Lite), the LRT would've on average only saved 1 minute. As a result they instead reallocated the funds to building the first phase of the Langley Skytrain Extension. The benefits of LRTs are redevelopment potential and capacity, speed is nowhere near the top of its benefits lists. We don't even have to look far to see how minimal the speed benefits are. When the iON LRT opened, the increase in speed compared to previous iXpress is negligible and in many places travel times actually increased, to the point where many trips that parallel the route of LRT are still faster by busses than by the LRT. As an example if you want to reach Fairway (the terminus of iON) from uWaterloo, depending on where you are on campus, taking the 12 is outright faster because while the LRT does have dedicated lanes, the LRT has to operate far slower around curves, deal with reduced top speeds and speed limits, and have reduced acceleration and deceleration.

 

[Rainforest]

When the iON LRT opened, the increase in speed compared to previous iXpress is negligible and in many places travel times actually increased, to the point where many trips that parallel the route of LRT are still faster by busses than by the LRT. As an example if you want to reach Fairway (the terminus of iON) from uWaterloo, depending on where you are on campus, taking the 12 is outright faster because while the LRT does have dedicated lanes, the LRT has to operate far slower around curves, deal with reduced top speeds and speed limits, and have reduced acceleration and deceleration.

That's an interesting observation. Sounds like the roads there are not very congested, and buses do not lose much time due to road congestion.

Dedicated lanes should bring a greater speed benefit in 416, where buses often get stuck in traffic and crawl with the traffic.

 

[sixrings]

Its not an opinion. With slower acceleration, slower top speeds, and longer dwell times, a lot of that time balances out especially during the off peak. When Vancouver was studying the Surrey LRT, they found out that compared to the existing R1 bus service (BRT Lite), the LRT would've on average only saved 1 minute. As a result they instead reallocated the funds to building the first phase of the Langley Skytrain Extension. The benefits of LRTs are redevelopment potential and capacity, speed is nowhere near the top of its benefits lists. We don't even have to look far to see how minimal the speed benefits are. When the iON LRT opened, the increase in speed compared to previous iXpress is negligible and in many places travel times actually increased, to the point where many trips that parallel the route of LRT are still faster by busses than by the LRT. As an example if you want to reach Fairway (the terminus of iON) from uWaterloo, depending on where you are on campus, taking the 12 is outright faster because while the LRT does have dedicated lanes, the LRT has to operate far slower around curves, deal with reduced top speeds and speed limits, and have reduced acceleration and deceleration.

Well I’ll enjoy hurontario and finch while Scarborough continues to bury its head in the sand demanding transit they can’t afford and some parking garages too.

 

[Rainforest]

I'd rather have it both ways. A trunk subway line, plus light rail on the busiest routes. Eglinton - Kingston Road, Sheppard&McCowan to Malvern Centre, Sheppard&McCowan to UofT Scarborough, McCowan North, Finch East.

 

[ARG1]

I'd rather have it both ways. A trunk subway line, plus light rail on the busiest routes. Eglinton - Kingston Road, Sheppard&McCowan to Malvern Centre, Sheppard&McCowan to UofT Scarborough, McCowan North, Finch East.

Maybe as a supplement its fine, but ultimately unless you absolutely need it, it isn't necessary. To quote Jonathan English, if you think you need light rail, you could probably do with more frequent bus service. You don't have to spend billions of dollars on an LRT.

Well I’ll enjoy hurontario and finch while Scarborough continues to bury its head in the sand demanding transit they can’t afford and some parking garages too.

So your solution is to build overpriced transit that doesn't actually improve connectivity and service by much and is only useful as a redevelopment tool to help business build more high density buildings?

 

[ARG1]

That's an interesting observation. Sounds like the roads there are not very congested, and buses do not lose much time due to road congestion.

Dedicated lanes should bring a greater speed benefit in 416, where buses often get stuck in traffic and crawl with the traffic.

The roads are frequently quite congested, the problem iON specifically faces is placed on the limitation of the technology. Even in a congested road environment, and even with full TSP - low speed limits, troubles at curves, and stuff like the acceleration are such constraining factors that even in packed roads, the speed improvement are barely noticeable.

 

[sixrings]

Where exactly are all the curves of the previous sheppard and eglinton east LRT plans? You’re making it out like the majority of the route wouldn’t be straight lines.

and the SRT conversion would have been in its own right of way so that’s not debatable even though Ford couldn’t comprehend that.