Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[sixrings]

You take the SRT every day and then tell me it's just a vanity project to boost Scarborough resident's self-esteem. Most people who take the rt now probably don't have cars, most connections are made from other transit connections, be it the subway or buses. Also, the ability to drive downtown instead of taking transit does not mean they aren't poor or neglected by transit planning. I don't understand what you are trying to say here but the tone (that I'm getting at least) is not appreciated and is unnecessary.

As a former Scarborough resident I took the RT daily. I am sorry if my tone frustrates you.

Scarborough could have had a network of LRTs to help make getting to the subway easier. However there was a lot of talk here and other places how Scarborough was being neglected and that it too deserved a subway. An attack on the poor was the narrative. Then there was a bunch of discussion even at city council which showed how much development would have to happen to justify a subway extension. But Scarborough residents again said sure bring on the density. Now instead of density we’re talking about a parking garage? Isn’t that the exact opposite of what we want beside subway stations?

I understand Scarborough may feel that it hasn’t been serviced well in transit over the years but it sure seems like give an inch and take a mile.

 

[KhalilHeron]

Then there was a bunch of discussion even at city council which showed how much development would have to happen to justify a subway extension. But Scarborough residents again said sure bring on the density. Now instead of density we’re talking about a parking garage? Isn’t that the exact opposite of what we want beside subway stations?

This is exactly what I was trying to say before you put it a lot better than I did lol. Parking spaces may be valuable here, but we don't need it, and building parking here Is really the opposite of what Metrolinx should be striving for. Thankfully they're not building parking here as they do to excess at every go station

 

[sixrings]

This is exactly what I was trying to say before you put it a lot better than I did lol. Parking spaces may be valuable here, but we don't need it, and building parking here Is really the opposite of what Metrolinx should be striving for. Thankfully they're not building parking here as they do to excess at every go station

The go parking stations are crazy. It’s as if they fully gave up on the last mile being done by walking, biking, bus or lrt. It’s car, go, subway or nothing in the suburbs.

 

[Coolstar]

The go parking stations are crazy. It’s as if they fully gave up on the last mile being done by walking, biking, bus or lrt. It’s car, go, subway or nothing in the suburbs.

GO is in fact the largest parking operator in NA. It's crazy stuff. Would really love to see much of those parking lots redeveloped into residential/commercial areas around the stations.

 

[sixrings]

GO is in fact the largest parking operator in NA. It's crazy stuff. Would really love to see much of those parking lots redeveloped into residential/commercial areas around the stations.

That’s plain silly. Then how would the single detached homes residents get to the station?

 

[Coolstar]

That’s plain silly. Then how would the single detached homes residents get to the station?

Run frequent feeder buses to the GO stations then. Let's emulate the success we had with running frequent buses to TTC stations elsewhere. Burlington Transit is trying to make such a change.

 

[Undead]

^missed the sarcasm methinks

 

[sixrings]

Run frequent feeder buses to the GO stations then. Let's emulate the success we had with running frequent buses to TTC stations elsewhere. Burlington Transit is trying to make such a change.

View attachment 324541

So what you’re saying is frequent bus service is good enough to get move people to rapid transit. Please inform the good people of Scarborough of that fact.

 

[afransen]

1. We don't know how fast that change will occur, nor how far it will go.
2. Ridershare or robotaxi are not without their own drawbacks. Less hardware, but likely more km driven overall: say in the morning peak, most of people are going to the subway, but the robotaxis need to go back empty to bring more people.

And if at some point there isn't enough users to keep the parking lot / parking garage open, it will be relatively easy to re-purpose. Both building a parking lot and repurposing the parking lot is very cheap compared to the subway construction cost.

Parking garages are not cheap.

 

[rbt]

Burlington's fare integration with GO is sadly way better than Toronto's, and from many areas of Scarborough frequent buses + rapid transit still can equal a grueling 100-minute one-way trip.

Every location where Metrolinx pays the local transit fare has better GO+Local fare integration than TTC where the passenger pays the fare.

 

[sixrings]

Burlington's fare integration with GO is sadly way better than Toronto's, and from many areas of Scarborough frequent buses + rapid transit still can equal a grueling 100-minute one-way trip.

That maybe true but we are building a lrt along finch and eglinton, a Ontario line all while expanding the subway past Scarborough town centre. It should be obvious that we shouldn’t be building giant parking garages at every station because people would rather drive than take the bus. We should be aiming to be building sustainable neighbourhoods which are pedestrian and biking friendly near these stations. Now if people choose to ignore the pedestrian and transit options in front of them like many of the condo residents along sheppard then that is their own decision. But at least we gave people a community which they should feel that they NEED to have a car to live in.

 

[NoahB]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned much is that as the area's around the stations densify, public parking at new towers would provide an alternative. If a condo/hotel developer sees a market for people driving and parking at the station, they probably will provide it. No need for the TTC to provide the lots. Sure, the private parking lots will have higher fees, but people who want to drive will be happy to pay it to avoid downtown parking fees.

At least that's how I imagine it.

 

[syn]

I thought people of Scarborough deserved a subway because they were poor and neglected in comparison to the downtown elite. Now the suggestion is if the Scarborough residents don’t get a parking spot next to the subway station they will clog up the DVP and drive straight downtown. So the poor Scarborough resident who felt too good for the SRT also feels too good for the bus? They also own a car which they can afford to put gas in at 1.30 litre to drive downtown and pay downtown parking fees? How poor and neglected is this Scarborough resident again that we are building multi billion dollar infrastructure to help build their self esteem?

As a former Scarborough resident I took the RT daily. I am sorry if my tone frustrates you.

Scarborough could have had a network of LRTs to help make getting to the subway easier. However there was a lot of talk here and other places how Scarborough was being neglected and that it too deserved a subway. An attack on the poor was the narrative. Then there was a bunch of discussion even at city council which showed how much development would have to happen to justify a subway extension. But Scarborough residents again said sure bring on the density. Now instead of density we’re talking about a parking garage? Isn’t that the exact opposite of what we want beside subway stations?

I understand Scarborough may feel that it hasn’t been serviced well in transit over the years but it sure seems like give an inch and take a mile.

The narrative can shift depending on what's necessary to justify the project.

I think greater access to those who are underprivileged is unquestionably a legitimate reason for transit expansion. That doesn't mean a subway extension was the answer.

And there's no doubt Metrolinx has not applied the same standards across these various projects.

I believe a city report suggested that Scarborough was unlikely to change much from it's low density character, even after the subway extension is completed. What you're suggesting (and is a good idea) is similar to 'streetcar suburbs' - unfortunately that's a tough sell in Scarborough. It's about having downtown infrastructure with the perks of suburbia. All of our major suburban transit projects are providing the most expensive, high capacity infrastructure, meant to provide as little interference as possible to their current lifestyle and neighbourhoods.

Unfortunately that just isn't a wise way to build transit.

In any case, with the SSE getting under construction soon, I wish them well and hope they can get it done as quickly as possible.

 

[syn]

Burlington's fare integration with GO is sadly way better than Toronto's, and from many areas of Scarborough frequent buses + rapid transit still can equal a grueling 100-minute one-way trip.

Out of curiosity - where in Scarborough would you be looking at a 100 minute trip downtown (I'm assuming that's the destination)?

 

[KhalilHeron]

Out of curiosity - where in Scarborough would you be looking at a 100 minute trip downtown (I'm assuming that's the destination)?

if avoiding the Go probably only the easternmost parts like west rouge. funny enough though I've had several 100+ minute trips on the ttc within Scarborough. If there's any bad traffic or weather going from the far east of Scarborough to the far west can be absolutely brutal.