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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

TheTigerMaster said:
With the way this government is behaving, I wonder if we’ll even see the SSE start construction in this term. The government seems to be setting themselves up to study this issue for the next four years, delaying construction indefinitely. This would help tremendously to help Ontario achieve its fiscal goals.

Of course, the Liberals did the same thing with the FWLRT and SELRT, by using Metrolinx to quietly delay and cancel those projects after burning tens of millions of dollars.
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Anything is possible. But keep in mind if that was to be the case then it will backfire on this Government quickly in terms of their Toronto support which we shouldnt underestimate the level of importance going into the next open municipal election if they intend to run a "Ford" or Conservative candidate.

At this stage its really just more of the same anti-conservative media and union lobby groups hysteria ready to jump at anything. This continous mongering may even increase the chances they keep moving on the file so it can used easily against the Opposition

There really been no indicaton of a real major delay. Announcing their Government is scrumming for air rights or any deals with the private sector doesnt mean the design is on hold by any means. Adding stops could cause some extra review time for Lawrence (and possible Eglinton) but even then the design work for basic stops can be addded relativiely easily along the current course of the design. The crossing of the 401 Sheppard could be a second phase 2 design to keep the ball rolling. Thats me speculating of a likely scenario based on common changes to engineering scope and the fact the design has actually been still moving forward.

While this corridor was not this Conservative governments doing, there is very little room w/Smarttrack to go back to the old corridor and little room to go backwards for any plan will not help find savings, nor will it be helpful with the state of the RT.

Those that dont want the line to be built will fuel the hysteria, yet its still a direct campaign promise which no matter if you see it right or wrong still holds weight as a priority
 
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OneCity said:
While this corridor was not this Conservative governments doing, there is very little room w/Smarttrack to go back to the old corridor and little room to go backwards for any plan will not help find savings, nor will it be helpful with the state of the RT.
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Isn't this point debatable? I haven't been following the SSE as closely as others so I could be wrong. Wasn't this one of the key Matlow vs Byford issues where Matlow says the could have started the LRT at the north end to give time for the second GO RER/Expansion/Smart Track track to be built (along with the overhead wires)? Others may recall more.
 
Allandale25 said:
Isn't this point debatable? I haven't been following the SSE as closely as others so I could be wrong. Wasn't this one of the key Matlow vs Byford issues where Matlow says the could have started the LRT at the north end to give time for the second GO RER/Expansion/Smart Track track to be built (along with the overhead wires)? Others may recall more.
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All seems kind of moot now that Doug Ford has flip-flopped on his promise to continue SmartTrack and deferred the new SmartTrack stations while they try and figure out some way for developers to pay for the stations (which based on the Ford Sheppard Subway experience in 2011 is clearly destined to do nothing but defer most of the stations until a future government).
 
nfitz said:
At Old Mill, the tracks are elevated. Is that what Scarborough wants, elevated tracks?

I certainly think that it should be elevated - burying them under Danforth Road and McCowan seems like a waste to me.
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I don't think most people in Scarborough are against elevated rail, but they do want an improved ride, whether that is with a loss of a transfer, better bus connections, new stations, or stations in better locations. The SRT is basically a subway-lite in a sense. I can assume that most people would be just fine if they replaced the rolling stock and took out Ellesmere/Midland stations.

The LRT is inherently stupid not because it's grade separated and [relatively] cheap, but because it aims to provide nothing new while reducing the potential ride quality of the line (longer wait times, lower platforms, huge reconstruction costs, etc). The current SSE plan accomplishes very little by removing the stop at Lawrence and increasing the walk between the bus terminal and the subway station. The fact that either of these plans were the only ones seriously considered is concerning.
 
Allandale25 said:
Isn't this point debatable? I haven't been following the SSE as closely as others so I could be wrong. Wasn't this one of the key Matlow vs Byford issues where Matlow says the could have started the LRT at the north end to give time for the second GO RER/Expansion/Smart Track track to be built (along with the overhead wires)? Others may recall more.
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In theory many schemes are possible. There would need to be support for the old LRT plan by the relevant leaders and representatives who are in power or situated atleast somwhere near the vicinity of Central Scarborough. There is not. Not even close. Heck not even in Malvern when there was a NDP councillor in the seat last term. Shan was a huge supporter and also fired shots back at Matlow.

Completly starting over a brand new design contract with any improved LRT or subway plan is also very couterproductive for both time and money. The alignment report at the start of Torys tenure also indicated minimal saving along that old corridor. Though RT upgrade would have been easily supportable as a seamless Scarb LRT-Crosstown proposed by Metrolinx in the Ford Mayorality or BDL extension on that alignment. Also not too mention coordinating seperate construction contracts can be just as messy financially and logistically.

Matlow was moreless weaponizing the subway-LRT debate as he does. Outside of him gaining a few voter points by fueling a useless divide and creating a false sense of hope in his outter ward theres been nothing useful about his politics here for any area of the City. While fueling geographical division might help him win his remote ward seat this level of polarization has consequnce in the bigger picture and Ford (and Tory) is also capitalizing on this nonsense from a position of actual leadership and power. It has become extremely counterproductive and the time to work with others towards solutions was a decade ago.
 
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Allandale25 said:
Isn't this point debatable? I haven't been following the SSE as closely as others so I could be wrong. Wasn't this one of the key Matlow vs Byford issues where Matlow says the could have started the LRT at the north end to give time for the second GO RER/Expansion/Smart Track track to be built (along with the overhead wires)? Others may recall more.
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Maybe it's more accurate to say elevated, as the Sheppard subway is elevated above Leslie.?

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Le...f0da807e15ef336!8m2!3d43.765218!4d-79.3620524
 
OneCity said:
In theory many schemes are possible. There would need to be support for the old LRT plan by the relevant leaders and representatives who are in power or situated atleast somwhere near the vicinity of Central Scarborough. There is not. Not even close. Heck not even in Malvern when there was a NDP councillor in the seat last term. Shan was a huge supporter and also fired shots back at Matlow.

Starting over with any improved LRT or subway plan is also very couterproductive for both time and money. It was also previously attempted. The alignment report at the start of Torys tenure also indicated minimal saving along that old corridor. Although the upgrade would have been easily supportable as a seamless Scarb LRT-Crosstown proposed by Metrolinx in the Ford Mayorality or BDL extenion on that alignment. Not too mention coordinating seperate construction contracts can be just as messy financially and logistically.

Matlow was moreless weaponizing the subway-LRT debate as he does. Outside of him gaining a few voter points by fueling a useless divide and creating a false sense of hope in his outter ward theres been nothing useful about his politics here for any area of the City. While fueling geographical division might help him win his remote ward seat this level of polarization has consequnce and Ford is also capitalizing on this nonsense from a position of actual leadership and power. It has become extremely counterproductive and the time to work with others towards solutions was a decade ago.
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I'm fully at of the politics and where the approval stands I was more curious about the logistics, particularly the claim that there's not enough room for two heavy rail tracks with overhead wires and two LRT tracks.
 
Streety McCarface said:
I don't think most people in Scarborough are against elevated rail, but they do want an improved ride, whether that is with a loss of a transfer, better bus connections, new stations, or stations in better locations. The SRT is basically a subway-lite in a sense. I can assume that most people would be just fine if they replaced the rolling stock and took out Ellesmere/Midland stations.

The LRT is inherently stupid not because it's grade separated and [relatively] cheap, but because it aims to provide nothing new while reducing the potential ride quality of the line (longer wait times, lower platforms, huge reconstruction costs, etc). The current SSE plan accomplishes very little by removing the stop at Lawrence and increasing the walk between the bus terminal and the subway station. The fact that either of these plans were the only ones seriously considered is concerning.
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SRT is however definitely appropriate for the ridership levels in Scarborough. Really a shame it wasn't retrofitted to LRT (which at the time was approx. 1B I believe), which considering the cost and lost stations compared to Scarborough 1 stop extension is MUCH better value. Just with the Gardiner debate, I don't think it's too late to reverse a hugely wasteful idea. If the Province offers to pay for Line 2 extension fully, then go for it.
 
nfitz said:
I assume you mean elevated above the Don River. The subway goes under Leslie Avenue, but both Leslie and the subway have bridges over the west branch of the Don River.
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I meant if facetiously. Just as Old Mill is not elevated above Bloor (or any other road), Sheppard is not elevated either.
Anyway - I think both examples are reasonable. I think Lawrence East Station would be underground (barely) and the tracks elevated above the river - which is more similar to Leslie.
 
I'm just waiting for the day the SRT fails completely, much in the same way the ALRV's are dropping like flies. When that day comes, Scarborough should hold a riot outside of Queen's Park and City Hall and ship Tory/Ford out of the city.
 
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