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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

afransen said:
So I guess the extra 4 minutes of drive time is meaningless because everyone's situation is so unique.
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So like collisions happen, sometimes adding 30 minutes.

Sometimes theres less traffic, cutting the commute by 2 minutes.

Thats how averages work.Its why you need a longer time frame. like months and months of data.
 
I hope the City report on Bloor gets broad circulation in the community. The data is a lot less emotional and rhetorical than what one hears on the sidewalk (or frankly here in this thread....)

It will be great to see the repeat report that is promised for the fall. Then we will have a rough baseline (this report) and some sense of how things are trending and whether any fixes have had an impact.

It's all about acknowledging, and fixing, and admitting where improvements were needed.

- Paul
 
turbanplanner said:
The 4% of cyclists are pretty meaningless imo!
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Hard to explain. But I kind of would like to make sure these 4 percent get to where they need to safely.

I think about the delivery driver who got hit by an Uber that hit him on the Bay bike lanes. I only saw the aftermath. The cyclist was on the ground while the driver got out of his car to ask if he was okay.

I had asked the driver whether he hit him. He told me he was parking on the side and didn't 'see' the delivery cyclist. I noticed there was a passenger who was just standing there. I asked her if she saw what happened. She said she was getting out of the car, and suddenly, the cyclist was on the ground. The car was stopped about a quarter/halfway into the bike lane. It seems the driver parked quickly, and then the passenger doored the cyclist.

The cyclist seemed apprehensive to talk. I couldn't tell if he didn't speak much because he hit his head or because he would rather not talk. He refused my offer to call the police. And didn't want to bother take the driver's info. He just wanted to leave.

If there had been better separation between the lanes, then Uber and passengers would have been more careful stopping and opening doors.

That car crash could have been much worse. That delivery cyclist seemed too low-income to afford to buy a car to use for his job. And that is one 'unique' situation. But it also represents hundreds( thousands?) of delivery people in constant danger delivering your neighbor's dinner.


Your 4 minutes extra travel time is not worth a person's safety.

(PS: I was called "one of those crazy cyclists who make a big deal about things" by the passenger for trying to help the cyclist by checking in and trying to call the police. I was walking on the sidewalk in slacks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
 
NoahB said:
Hard to explain. But I kind of would like to make sure these 4 percent get to where they need to safely.

I think about the delivery driver who got hit by an Uber that hit him on the Bay bike lanes. I only saw the aftermath. The cyclist was on the ground while the driver got out of his car to ask if he was okay.

I had asked the driver whether he hit him. He told me he was parking on the side and didn't 'see' the delivery cyclist. I noticed there was a passenger who was just standing there. I asked her if she saw what happened. She said she was getting out of the car, and suddenly, the cyclist was on the ground. The car was stopped about a quarter/halfway into the bike lane. It seems the driver parked quickly, and then the passenger doored the cyclist.

The cyclist seemed apprehensive to talk. I couldn't tell if he didn't speak much because he hit his head or because he would rather not talk. He refused my offer to call the police. And didn't want to bother take the driver's info. He just wanted to leave.

If there had been better separation between the lanes, then Uber and passengers would have been more careful stopping and opening doors.

That car crash could have been much worse. That delivery cyclist seemed too low-income to afford to buy a car to use for his job. And that is one 'unique' situation. But it also represents hundreds( thousands?) of delivery people in constant danger delivering your neighbor's dinner.


Your 4 minutes extra travel time is not worth a person's safety.

(PS: I was called "one of those crazy cyclists who make a big deal about things" by the passenger for trying to help the cyclist by checking in and trying to call the police. I was walking on the sidewalk in slacks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
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By that logic we should mandate everyone who can works from home 100% and lower the speed limits to 30 nationwide!
 
turbanplanner said:
By that logic we should mandate everyone who can works from home 100% and lower the speed limits to 30 nationwide!
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I'm not a fan of 'nanny states', and I generally think that there is far too much emphasis on the illusion of safety in this country, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have any safety regulations at all. Especially ones that are as harmless as having separated bike lanes. The fact of the matter is that most of the drivers in this country are like wild animals, completely incapable of the faintest iota of self governance. They cannot be trusted to mingle together with cyclists. Measures must be taken to prevent the twain from meeting.

Maybe, if pop can drivers didn't so completely suck at it, the modal share would be more than 4%?
 
T3G said:
I'm not a fan of 'nanny states', and I generally think that there is far too much emphasis on the illusion of safety in this country, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have any safety regulations at all. Especially ones that are as harmless as having separated bike lanes. The fact of the matter is that most of the drivers in this country are like wild animals, completely incapable of the faintest iota of self governance. They cannot be trusted to mingle together with cyclists. Measures must be taken to prevent the twain from meeting.

Maybe, if pop can drivers didn't so completely suck at it, the modal share would be more than 4%?
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Except the harm is you're slowing down the other 96% of road users at a time where the Gardiner AND 401 are under construction, 3+ ramps are closed, and the TTC has a habit of weekly rush hour shutdowns.

Also it's annoying NOBODY can give me a rough timeline and volume of what justifies taking away lanes, it's all built under the premise that in 5-10 years ridership will materialize. If a subway has less than X thousand riders per hour it doesn't get built.
 
turbanplanner said:
Except the harm is you're slowing down the other 96% of road users at a time where the Gardiner AND 401 are under construction, 3+ ramps are closed, and the TTC has a habit of weekly rush hour shutdowns.

Also it's annoying NOBODY can give me a rough timeline and volume of what justifies taking away lanes, it's all built under the premise that in 5-10 years ridership will materialize. If a subway has less than X thousand riders per hour it doesn't get built.
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Well, most of those road users should be using transit in the first place, and leaving the roads open for the poor sobs from the suburbs who need to drive because their transit is a thousand times poorer than the one inside the city. At rush hour, there are really no time savings to think of when using transit vs. driving, especially when the form of transit in question is the subway. The possibility of a shut down (as though roads never get shut down) is not a valid excuse for driving along Bloor Street at rush hour; it is a task you undertake at your own cost.

Perhaps instead of complaining at being slowed down by a few minutes (I've driven on my share of roads with no bike lanes - trust me, they are not any faster), drivers ought to recognize their privilege, and realize that they live in a big city with lots of people and we can't only be catering to them.
 
turbanplanner said:
By that logic we should mandate everyone who can works from home 100% and lower the speed limits to 30 nationwide!
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What you wrote right here is you imposing your logic on my argument. Very frustrating and not constructive.

By my logic, I would be more nuanced. I don't see why my logic would mandate work from home when a person can go to work or shop within a short (and safe!) bike ride from home.

Downtown streets would have lanes replaced with dedicated streetcars and bike lanes. Maybe even removed traffic from some streets, like in Montreal.

I like the idea of a city where a kid can bike/walk to the local park to meet friends or go to the community center. Their parents don't need to worry about their kids being run over. Seniors can cross the street without worrying about cars hitting them at high speed. (over 30km/h)

Arteriels would have their lane width reduced so that they speed less and their grass edges replaced with separated cycle paths.

I'm not versed on how to make highways safer, so I'll leave modification ideas to it to others.
 
turbanplanner said:
Except the harm is you're slowing down the other 96% of road users at a time where the Gardiner AND 401 are under construction, 3+ ramps are closed, and the TTC has a habit of weekly rush hour shutdowns.

Also it's annoying NOBODY can give me a rough timeline and volume of what justifies taking away lanes, it's all built under the premise that in 5-10 years ridership will materialize. If a subway has less than X thousand riders per hour it doesn't get built.
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Sorry you are annoyed but you have an amazing ability to throw up 'straw men' or ask questions that are (knowingly or not) designed to be unanswerable. You note this time "If a subway has less than X thousand riders per hour it doesn't get built.". I point you to the Sheppard line (#4). subway. It was built for political reasons and has still not reached a proper level of use. It opened in 2002 and in 2020 (its heaviest use year) it still only JUST passed 50,000. See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_4_Sheppard

You sometimes raise interesting points but I am about to add you to my very short ignore list. Farewell
 
T3G said:
Well, most of those road users should be using transit in the first place, and leaving the roads open for the poor sobs from the suburbs who need to drive because their transit is a thousand times poorer than the one inside the city. At rush hour, there are really no time savings to think of when using transit vs. driving, especially when the form of transit in question is the subway. The possibility of a shut down (as though roads never get shut down) is not a valid excuse for driving along Bloor Street at rush hour; it is a task you undertake at your own cost.

Perhaps instead of complaining at being slowed down by a few minutes (I've driven on my share of roads with no bike lanes - trust me, they are not any faster), drivers ought to recognize their privilege, and realize that they live in a big city with lots of people and we can't only be catering to them.
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Again, nobody has given me an actual ratio, timeline, or guidelines or even a single hard number to justify anything. Anyways until some new numbers come out this is a pointless back and forth. I encourage you to actually ask a real person who drives why they choose so.
DSC said:
Sorry you are annoyed but you have an amazing ability to throw up 'straw men' or ask questions that are (knowingly or not) designed to be unanswerable. You note this time "If a subway has less than X thousand riders per hour it doesn't get built.". I point you to the Sheppard line (#4). subway. It was built for political reasons and has still not reached a proper level of use. It opened in 2002 and in 2020 (its heaviest use year) it still only JUST passed 50,000. See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_4_Sheppard

You sometimes raise interesting points but I am about to add you to my very short ignore list. Farewell
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I'm sorry you choose to burry your head in the sand!
 
@DSC above is on point and i would encourage others to follow his lead. I've had this person on my ignore list for sometime, and deign to comment only because others point out what he's been posting or I see it by way of looking at other member's posts that I appreciate.
 
Northern Light said:
@DSC above is on point and i would encourage others to follow his lead. I've had this person on my ignore list for sometime, and deign to comment only because others point out what he's been posting or I see it by way of looking at uses posts that I appreciate.
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You realize you've been quite rude to me and personally attacked me?
 
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