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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

It's amazing how many people who design cycling infrastructure still don't get it. I recently had a conversation with an engineer who designs bike lanes and paths who said that green paint was enough for to alert drivers of a bike path at an intersection, driver education was all that was lacking, and the design of the intersections doesn't affect driver behaviour. Clueless.

Undead said:
Do the Willowdale lanes mean we're less likely to get the Reimagining Yonge lanes?
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I don't think the Willowdale lanes have any impact on Reimagining Yonge. Willowdale is a good distance from Yonge and doesn't do anything to improve getting around the commercial core of North York on a bike.

Speaking of which, wasn't the Reimagining Yonge project going to be considered by Council again sometime this fall? Anyone know the status of that?
 
MisterF said:
It's amazing how many people who design cycling infrastructure still don't get it. I recently had a conversation with an engineer who designs bike lanes and paths who said that green paint was enough
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Yeah, green paint would have done wonders here.

20200824-bike-lanes-toronto.jpg
 
It really seems like we need 24/7 automated camera enforcement of these types of infractions. Cameras are getting better and cheaper, it is eventually going to be practical to do this. The downside is the civil liberties risk of abuse of those cameras. They should just capture infractions and ditch the rest of the footage, but you need to trust government not to tamper with it.
 
afransen said:
It really seems like we need 24/7 automated camera enforcement of these types of infractions. Cameras are getting better and cheaper, it is eventually going to be practical to do this. The downside is the civil liberties risk of abuse of those cameras. They should just capture infractions and ditch the rest of the footage, but you need to trust government not to tamper with it.
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What we need is stronger enforcement. Forget about tickets... tickets don't do FA! It has to be tow, tow and tow all day. And anything with a black commercial plate should be seized and the vehicle auctioned off and the contents held. That'll piss off the courier customers and encourage folks to use courier services that don't act illegally.
 
afransen said:
It really seems like we need 24/7 automated camera enforcement of these types of infractions. Cameras are getting better and cheaper, it is eventually going to be practical to do this. The downside is the civil liberties risk of abuse of those cameras. They should just capture infractions and ditch the rest of the footage, but you need to trust government not to tamper with it.
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The easiest way is to deputize the citizens of the city. We all have phones, and should be able to submit to traffic enforcement pics of cars parked in bike lanes. Those offenders then get a warning and photo in the mail. If they show up in three pics, some sort of enforcement action must take place.
 
Admiral Beez said:
The easiest way is to deputize the citizens of the city. We all have phones, and should be able to submit to traffic enforcement pics of cars parked in bike lanes. Those offenders then get a warning and photo in the mail. If they show up in three pics, some sort of enforcement action must take place.
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I think something like this should be possible, but I can see there being concerns. One would be tampering with pictures or verifying that the infraction happened when and where it was claimed so it would hold up if challenged. It might need to be a dedicated app that would be harder to fool and upload doctored images, etc. Second concern would be about harassment and potential altercations between members of the public.

Cameras could help with towing for that matter. You could have enforcement operators working centrally reviewing infractions that are flagged in real time and dispatching tow. Problem with towing is that people still feel entitled to a 'I was just running in to grab something' excuse and may get away before tow can arrive. Guaranteed ticket would help.
 
Councillor Mark Grimes is at it again. Being anti-cyclist this time...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314276853662744577

From link.

Toronto police now stopping cyclists for "speeding".

While Toronto may be known for having overly aggressive motorists and far too many tragic pedestrian deaths, it seems police are more focused on a different, slower type of road user these days: cyclists.

Earlier this week, the Toronto Police 22 Division posted photos on Facebook showing officers using radar guns to track the speed of cyclists travelling down a bike path in south Etobicoke.

"Did you know that bicycle paths in south Etobicoke have a speed limit?" reads the post. "22 Division community officers in partnership with councillor @mark.grimes have been in the parks educating about #speeding, #safety and #community concerns."

The photos also show several signs that indicate a speed limit of 20 km per hour for bikers along with a large message saying "Slow down."

Since they were originally posted on Facebook just two days ago, the photos have been shared all over social media and drawn all kinds of criticism, with many questioning how and why the police are putting resources towards cyclists speeding when there are far more pressing issues.
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"My little brother was killed by a guy who was texting and driving. TPS barely does traffic enforcement. I can't describe how angry this useless waste of time exercise makes me," wrote Torontonian on Twitter.

"Is the Toronto Police Force trolling us?" wrote another. "We will not do a THING about cars speeding down your street which has a school on it, or deadly intersections, or near deadly intersections, but hey, bicycles and chalk messages that say mean things about US, we're on it!"

In response to some of the angry messages flooding in on social media, and there have been hundreds, the Toronto police wrote that the initiative was meant to raise awareness following concerns expressed by members of the public and local city councillor Mark Grimes.

"Officers were there to increase awareness & educate people after a number of concerns were raised by the community, including fellow cyclists, & a councillor," they wrote. "The speed radars were used purely for education & not enforcement. We received a positive response from residents."

But many are pointing out that Grimes has not historically been the most pedestrian/cyclist-friendly councillor in the city, and that, in reality, speeding drivers pose a much greater risk to the safety of local residents than bikers on a quiet path.
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For the most part, the general consensus, at least on social media, seems to be that the issue of speeding cyclists couldn't be further from the biggest problem facing Toronto residents right now, or for that matter, ever.
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Who decided that going more than 20 km/h is speeding? Marathon runners run at an average 20 km/h. "Average" means that some go faster than 20 km/h. Sprinters can do 30 km/h.

The average racing cyclists do 41.7km/h. Cycling sprinters do 63.9km/h.
 
afransen said:
I think something like this should be possible, but I can see there being concerns. One would be tampering with pictures or verifying that the infraction happened when and where it was claimed so it would hold up if challenged. It might need to be a dedicated app that would be harder to fool and upload doctored images, etc. Second concern would be about harassment and potential altercations between members of the public.

Cameras could help with towing for that matter. You could have enforcement operators working centrally reviewing infractions that are flagged in real time and dispatching tow. Problem with towing is that people still feel entitled to a 'I was just running in to grab something' excuse and may get away before tow can arrive. Guaranteed ticket would help.
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Simple fix. Cyclists and others who want to participate must apply to the city as a volunteer traffic enforcement staffer. They’d have to have some sort of test or approval, but keep it simple and free.
 
afransen said:
Not opposed to towing, but a guaranteed $500 ticket will get pretty strong compliance.
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Agreed. It's ridiculous that they used this logic for the insane cost of a fare evasion ticket at the TTC, but won't apply it to situations that help protect people from being killed or injured. A $150 ticket is a minor slap on the wrist to a lot of these people. Look at how many of the cars parked in bike lanes are Mercedes or BMWs or other expensive cars. Make it worth enough they learn their lesson.
 
TossYourJacket said:
Agreed. It's ridiculous that they used this logic for the insane cost of a fare evasion ticket at the TTC, but won't apply it to situations that help protect people from being killed or injured. A $150 ticket is a minor slap on the wrist to a lot of these people. Look at how many of the cars parked in bike lanes are Mercedes or BMWs or other expensive cars. Make it worth enough they learn their lesson.
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And increase the odds to a near guarantee that you’ll be ticketed. Slow and then roll through a stop sign in your car and thr odds of some passing cop even GAF are very low, so we do it.

This goes back to my post about the need for beat cops. Why we issue police with shoes at all baffles me. If all you’re going to do is drive around you can do that with slippers, maybe police issue moccasins. But then again, last summer I was walking by the TD Bank at Carlton and Parliament, and a car parked illegally just by chance as a police officer was walking by. The driver asked the cop can I park here (in a clearly marked no parking zone) and the cop laughed at the guy and said “I’m not parking enforcement, I don’t care where you park” and carried on his walk to the Timmies. For that we pay this cop $100k plus benefits.
 
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