CNE Air Show

[tkip]

Outrageous.....

If the only thing that someone can complain about is a once a year event with planes flying over the city a few hours a day, then someone needs to get a life or move out of town. Are we actually having a debate about this kind of stupidity? It's like listening to a cranky old person trying to prevent others from having some fun.

 

[gristle]

I find the Air Show disturbing.

For a couple of hours every year WMD's are flown over the city.

It's as though the government or the military are making a not so subtle point about who is ultimately in control.

I also wonder about what sort of people want to look at WMD's on their day off?

I'm one of those people who likes to go to air shows and take a look at the military aircraft when possible. These shows are often quite crowded. Care to say what is wrong with all of us?

 

[Whoaccio]

I'm sure this breaks some kind of NAVCAN regulations, but I would love for a few of the aircraft to break the sound barrier on a low-ish level flyby. Why bring an F-22 up here if they are just going to fly it like a granny?

I dunno how loud a sonic boom from something like an F-22, F-16 or (C)F-18 would be at typical air show altitude, but as an annual thing it can't be so bad.

 

[Marko]

Yeah, that would be cool.

I think the point at which they break the sound barrier should be directly over Algonquin Island

 

[AnnetteMeetsJane]

Boom

Taken from the BBC News website, and this was above 10,000. We are pretty used to low-level fighter flying in Norfolk, but this obviously caused a stir... I can't imagine what it would sound like at very low altitude : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7306883.stm

"Sonic boom shakes parts of county
An F-15 jet
An F-15 carried out a supersonic run over Norfolk
A sonic boom that shook a police HQ and homes across Norfolk was caused by an American F-15 fighter jet carrying out a supersonic run, the MoD said.

A single American Air force F-15 fighter carried out a supersonic run that ended above Cromer at lunchtime.

"The aircraft from RAF Lakenheath was flying above 10,000ft at the time of the run," an MoD spokesman said.

Sonic booms occur when an aircraft travels through the sound barrier, the British Geological Survey said.

An RAF Lakenheath spokeswoman confirmed there had been an aircraft in the area when the incident was reported, but said she was unable to confirm what it was.

'Desks shook'

A spokesman for the British Geological Survey said: "Sonic booms, which have quite similar effects to an earthquake, are common in the Norfolk area because of all the nearby military bases."

A Norfolk Police spokeswoman, based at Wymondham, told the BBC: "There was big rumble just after midday and the desks shook.

"At first we thought it had come from down the corridor but staff in other offices had a similar experience."

Nick Foulcher, a car mechanic in Hethersett, said he was working on a Rolls Royce when the doors to his workshop shook violently and his F1 memorabilia moved.

A Norfolk Fire and Rescue spokesman said he knew nothing of the event."

 

[kEiThZ]

I'm sure this breaks some kind of NAVCAN regulations, but I would love for a few of the aircraft to break the sound barrier on a low-ish level flyby. Why bring an F-22 up here if they are just going to fly it like a granny?

I dunno how loud a sonic boom from something like an F-22, F-16 or (C)F-18 would be at typical air show altitude, but as an annual thing it can't be so bad.

Low level sonic booms can cause a lot of damage including but not limited to: broken windows, dead cattle/livestock, damage to environmental monitoring sensors, and depending on how low and how fast the boom can snap trees etc.

In Canada, supersonic flight is heavily restricted to specific CF training areas and ranges. Ditto for the use of afterburners (which can create sonic booms from supersonic exhaust gases).

 

[Marko]

Low level sonic booms can cause a lot of damage including but not limited to: broken windows, dead cattle/livestock, damage to environmental monitoring sensors, and depending on how low and how fast the boom can snap trees etc.

In Canada, supersonic flight is heavily restricted to specific CF training areas and ranges. Ditto for the use of afterburners (which can create sonic booms from supersonic exhaust gases).

Interesting.

At what altitude and/or distance from Pearson would the Concorde have been reaching supersonic flight, when it was still in use?

I'll ever forget the day we were pulled over on the north side of Derry Rd - by a cop - and it took off right over our heads, and was gone in a flash. It was a Wednesday IIRC, and did it not always use the northbound runway?

 

[Whoaccio]

Low level sonic booms can cause a lot of damage including but not limited to: broken windows, dead cattle/livestock, damage to environmental monitoring sensors, and depending on how low and how fast the boom can snap trees etc.

Off the top of your head, how high up would something like an F-18 have to be to merely cause a "sh*t your pants" loud boom?

 

[kEiThZ]

Off the top of your head, how high up would something like an F-18 have to be to merely cause a "sh*t your pants" loud boom?

Put it this way. In Canada we have a speed limit of 250 knots indicated airspeed below 10 000 feet ASL.

That F-15 is a good example of pants-trembling reaction at a decent altitude (nearly 2 miles up). I would say as much as 15-20 000 feet may be necessary with a clean aircraft (nothing hanging off the wings to make the shock worse)...and even that might be too much for people. If you wanna see one of these, you can find a fighter high speed navigation route and sit in a lawn chair at a turn point when he/she kicks on the burners....just make sure you wear ear protection and that there aren't any trees in the vicinity....and carry extra underwear.

Indeed, high speed passes are now part of the psychological warfare game plan routinely used in Iraq and Afghanistan against insurgents. It part of the kinder, gentler warfare. We don't bomb them as much anymore. We just make a lot of noise.

 

[kEiThZ]

Interesting.

At what altitude and/or distance from Pearson would the Concorde have been reaching supersonic flight, when it was still in use?

I'll ever forget the day we were pulled over on the north side of Derry Rd - by a cop - and it took off right over our heads, and was gone in a flash. It was a Wednesday IIRC, and did it not always use the northbound runway?

I believe the Concorde used to reserve supersonic flight for only the over-water leg. The authorities generally did not allow supersonic flight over land to the best of my knowledge because of the aforementioned environmental concerns.

 

[nfitz]

I believe the Concorde used to reserve supersonic flight for only the over-water leg. The authorities generally did not allow supersonic flight over land to the best of my knowledge because of the aforementioned environmental concerns.

Bingo ... Concorde didn't go supersonic until it hit the Atlantic ... at least after all the fuss in the 1970s.

So it only became effective on routes almost entirely over water, such as London/Paris to New York, Washington, Rio, etc.

 

[RobbieD]

Granny?

I'm sure this breaks some kind of NAVCAN regulations, but I would love for a few of the aircraft to break the sound barrier on a low-ish level flyby. Why bring an F-22 up here if they are just going to fly it like a granny?

I dunno how loud a sonic boom from something like an F-22, F-16 or (C)F-18 would be at typical air show altitude, but as an annual thing it can't be so bad.

Lots of jets can go supersonic, but few have the maneuverability that the F-22 has. I was thinking the same thing as you actually, "why isn't this thing going faster", but I realized it's not about going fast but watching this jet move like those propeller stunt planes while knowing it can also make you shit your pants, if need be.

 

[lordmandeep]

From the Show MythBusters they looked at the myth about Figher Jets causing sonic booms loud enough to break glass.


A fighter jet has to literally dive down and pull up over you for the sonic boom to concentrate enough to cause much damage.

 

[Automation Gallery]

I dunno how loud a sonic boom from something like an F-22, F-16 or (C)F-18 would be at typical air show altitude, but as an annual thing it can't be so bad.

Hey im all for the air show and enjoy it from my deck, but years ago when there was no regulation on speed, the Thunderbirds shattered many windows of homes in south Parkdale.

 

[kEiThZ]

From the Show MythBusters they looked at the myth about Figher Jets causing sonic booms loud enough to break glass.


A fighter jet has to literally dive down and pull up over you for the sonic boom to concentrate enough to cause much damage.

As someone with first hand experience, I'll say that's not true. If you have the misfortune of facing his tail pipe as he slams on full burners...that can occassionally be enough to take out a few windows.