Candidates and their subway plans... The Star tells you which one is more credible

[Fresh Start]

I read a suggestion here, that Smitherman skipped DRL in his plan not because it's unimportant in his view, but because he hopes to get it in a package with Yonge North subway.

Whether this is actually a good strategy ... debatable.

Enough with the tricks and backroom deals. If he's going to seriously pursue building a DRL, just say so.

 

[nfitz]

I read a suggestion here, that Smitherman skipped DRL in his plan not because it's unimportant in his view, but because he hopes to get it in a package with Yonge North subway.

Whether this is actually a good strategy ... debatable.

It's an excellent strategy. Why push the province to give you something you know they will have to. It's almost Miller-like.

 

[uptownto]

According to Smitherman in the Toronto Star, the unfunded portion of his plan is $5B, not $7B.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontomayoralrace/article/819409--smitherman-calls-for-pronto-approach-to-city-services
Excerpt:
"Responding himself to questions about the $17 billion transit plan he announced last week, Smitherman said his plan would require only $5 billion more than the money already promised by senior governments and the city. That’s $2 billion less than he had originally suggested.

The difference, he said, is the cost escalation attached to phasing in the Metrolinx Transit City light rail plans more slowly. The province has agreed to cover that $2 billion cost."

 

[Rainforest]

It's an excellent strategy. Why push the province to give you something you know they will have to. It's almost Miller-like.

Excellent strategy if it works ... but disastrous if it doesn't. What if the province gives up on Yonge North subway? The case for DRL will be greatly diminished at the provincial level, but the southern sections of Yonge and Spadina still cannot handle all the new riders brought in by Transit City LRT lines, TYSSE, and overall population growth.

 

[nfitz]

Excellent strategy if it works ... but disastrous if it doesn't. What if the province gives up on Yonge North subway? The case for DRL will be greatly diminished at the provincial level, but the southern sections of Yonge and Spadina still cannot handle all the new riders brought in by Transit City LRT lines, TYSSE, and overall population growth.

Then the DRL is still in the Metrolinx program for construction between 2020 and 2035 ... and no reason not to push for a 2020 start on it. I'm not supporting Smitherman's Transit plan here though ... just commenting on strategy.

 

[kEiThZ]

I don't see why such a strategy could not work. Regardless of which party is in power, the 905 is a vote rich belt. They want subways. Provincial parties which want votes will cater to these voters. Especially since they tend to be swing voters. Smitherman has turned the Sorbara subway strategy to our advantage. If Queen's Parks wants subways to the 905, they'll now have to take a packaged deal which includes subways inside the 416.

 

[gweed123]

It's an excellent strategy. Why push the province to give you something you know they will have to. It's almost Miller-like.

Because if the Provincial funding well runs dry after all the projects that he is currently proposing are built, the DRL is SOL for another 10-15 years. And by 10-15 years, I mean 10-15 years AFTER all these projects are done, not 10-15 years from today. It's too big of a gamble to play for the single most-needed piece of transit infrastructure in the city.

 

[nfitz]

Because if the Provincial funding well runs dry after all the projects that he is currently proposing are built, the DRL is SOL for another 10-15 years. And by 10-15 years, I mean 10-15 years AFTER all these projects are done, not 10-15 years from today. It's too big of a gamble to play for the single most-needed piece of transit infrastructure in the city.

Your worst case scenario is that DRL wouldn't come for another 20-30 years? Gosh, you are an optimist!

 

[MindMe]

I've seen so many transit plans for Toronto vanish in the 11th hour I would take with a grain of salt any candidate's plan. It's a nice fantasy but LRT/Subway expansion beyond putting something else on Sheppard east proves to be so much fantasy over the last 20 years.

 

[ladyscraper]

Well the only thing this tells me is that I should absolutely not be voting for Rob Ford. We need more transit built and we need it built ASAP. I may not agree with everything each candidate is proposing but if someone dares to not propose anything at all then they certainly won't be getting a vote from me. This is the most important issue facing this city right now and if one candidate wants to be vague and not take it seriously then they are out of touch with the people and won't be getting my vote.
If he still has a proposal or ideas coming then maybe I would change my mind. I doubt he will but I shouldn't count anyone out yet.

 

[Fresh Start]

Well the only thing this tells me is that I should absolutely not be voting for Rob Ford. We need more transit built and we need it built ASAP. I may not agree with everything each candidate is proposing but if someone dares to not propose anything at all then they certainly won't be getting a vote from me. This is the most important issue facing this city right now and if one candidate wants to be vague and not take it seriously then they are out of touch with the people and won't be getting my vote.
If he still has a proposal or ideas coming then maybe I would change my mind. I doubt he will but I shouldn't count anyone out yet.

Rob Ford actually does have a comprehensive transit plan, he's just not going by the media's timetable on when he'll officially release it in full detail. To my understanding through email correspondence I've been having with Rob's Director of Policy, Mark; Eglinton subway, BD East to Scarborough Centre and the DRL subway are all mentioned in it. I, like you, feel that rapid transit expansion is Toronto's most pressing issue right now, which is why it's critical that the TTC/Metrolinx builds something that's of lasting benefit to the City/region as a whole, something that'll last 100 years vs 30.

 

[Electrify]

Why? Um, well, let me introduce you to a form of rapid transit that already exists on Sheppard. It's called the Sheppard Subway. Now explain to me why a subway line that was never finished should stay that way and have LRT east of it and force even more transfers on people? Who is the SELRT helping anyway?

And sorry for saying the SELRT is the stupidst project on the books right now. It's tied with the SRT being replaced by an LRT instead of just building the damn Danforth subway two more stops to hit Scarborough Town Centre. (Especially since LRT would require buses during construction, whereas a subway on an entirely new alignment could be done with no shutdowns).

For the record, unlike Kennedy station, Don Mills at least has Fairview Mall located there. While it will be a transfer for some, it will also be a destination for others. The Sheppard subway would also expand from its current stub form as a north-central crossroute, connecting with the Spadina line for efficient service to York University (also a major destination). While this setup is not convenient for those travelling from Malvern to Rexdale, the number of stops would make such a trip unappealing regardless, and such a trip would be better taken with 401 GO services.

The SELRT will improve local service along the corridor. It may not encourage commuters from Finch or Ellesmere to take it over those bus routes, but it will improve the ride quality and speed for those along that corridor. And yes, I'd rather see something with more spaced out stops to at least make it competitive with the 401 during rush hours, but unless you want another Harris-Eglinton scenaro where it is canceled after the shovels are in the ground in hopes something better is proposed in another 20 years, I say we take what we can get.

 

[Dan416]

For the record, unlike Kennedy station, Don Mills at least has Fairview Mall located there. While it will be a transfer for some, it will also be a destination for others. The Sheppard subway would also expand from its current stub form as a north-central crossroute, connecting with the Spadina line for efficient service to York University (also a major destination). While this setup is not convenient for those travelling from Malvern to Rexdale, the number of stops would make such a trip unappealing regardless, and such a trip would be better taken with 401 GO services.

The SELRT will improve local service along the corridor. It may not encourage commuters from Finch or Ellesmere to take it over those bus routes, but it will improve the ride quality and speed for those along that corridor. And yes, I'd rather see something with more spaced out stops to at least make it competitive with the 401 during rush hours, but unless you want another Harris-Eglinton scenaro where it is canceled after the shovels are in the ground in hopes something better is proposed in another 20 years, I say we take what we can get.

You could improve the ride quality and speed with bus lanes until you have the money to finish the subway. The SELRT ain't helping anyone. It's a big waste of money and the most pitiful excuse for a transit project one could possibly imagine.

 

[The Mad Navigator]

You could improve the ride quality and speed with bus lanes.

Ride quality? Really? lol

As for speed, would you take a BRT on sheppard?

The SELRT ain't helping anyone.

Says you? I'm going to take a stab here and say that you probably didn't stand on the corner of oh, let's say Warden and Sheppard and directly poll people and ask them yourself.

It's a big waste of money and the most pitiful excuse for a transit project one could possibly imagine.

Yes, because one size fits all, right? It's that simple!

....

 

[Justin10000]

You could improve the ride quality and speed with bus lanes until you have the money to finish the subway. The SELRT ain't helping anyone. It's a big waste of money and the most pitiful excuse for a transit project one could possibly imagine.

The ride quality will not improve with a bus-lane, and you are not addressing the capacity issue. Bus lanes do not have the capacity of LRT. How do you lknow it's not helping anyone? It's definitely going to improve the journeys for the current riders of the 85 Sheppard bus.