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[AKS]

isn't that the lower donland's job? I think they can integrate the islands by building bridges from lower donlands to the toronto islands. It will be close as well I think? And there will be TTC running thorugh lower donlands.

Isn't there a law against adding residential buildings on the island? It's basically an "elite" area no one touches. No cars, no increase of housing.

 

[jtaylor247]

We should just finish the rail link. Then, either shrink the island airport to the minimum possible size by prohibiting commercial use or just demolish the whole thing. Reclaim the land for Toronto's version of Central Park. For access, build a pedestrian/bicycle only bridge at the foot of Bathurst. Perhaps the bridge should also allow streetcars from Union or Bathurst stations to pass.

I fail to see how that would not be accessible to the vast majority of Torontonians. I know that Porter is not.

 

[Automation Gallery]

We should just finish the rail link. Then, either shrink the island airport to the minimum possible size by prohibiting commercial use or just demolish the whole thing. Reclaim the land for Toronto's version of Central Park. For access, build a pedestrian/bicycle only bridge at the foot of Bathurst. Perhaps the bridge should also allow streetcars from Union or Bathurst stations to pass.

I fail to see how that would not be accessible to the vast majority of Torontonians. I know that Porter is not.

I guess we should all vote in the Communist Party of Canada and these
dreams may come true.

 

[jtaylor247]

I understand your point as to how this might seem a little unfair to an established business, but:

- Porter receives federal funding which is not exactly true to the capitalist spirit.
- The rail link has the possibility of seriously cutting into porter's market.
- We do this sort of thing to business all the time for the betterment of the people. e.g. St. Clair.

 

[gristle]

I understand your point as to how this might seem a little unfair to an established business, but:

- Porter receives federal funding which is not exactly true to the capitalist spirit.
- The rail link has the possibility of seriously cutting into porter's market.
- We do this sort of thing to business all the time for the betterment of the people. e.g. St. Clair.

So are you are suggesting that public money be spent for the express purpose of putting a specific airline out of business?

 

[nfitz]

to take an airline that requires me to check-in 1 hour prior ...

1-hour ... to Montreal and Ottawa perhaps. On US service they recommend 2-hours ... and that often isn't enough when US customs get's backlogged ... for one flight I was about 2.5 hours early ... and still had to get escorted through US customs because I was about to miss my flight.

 

[kEiThZ]

I understand your point as to how this might seem a little unfair to an established business, but:

- Porter receives federal funding which is not exactly true to the capitalist spirit.
- The rail link has the possibility of seriously cutting into porter's market.
- We do this sort of thing to business all the time for the betterment of the people. e.g. St. Clair.

1) Porter does not receive federal funding. Even if you count the court settlement as federal funding, it pails in comparison to the types of goodies that Porter's competitors (Air Canada) gets.

2) The rail link won't hurt Porter too much at all. As I've already pointed out. A free 10-15 min shuttle ride from Union station can't compete with a $20-$40 return train ride on the UPRL. And this does not even include the accessibility of the Island airport vs. Pearson for everyone living in the eastern half of the GTA and the central areas of Toronto. It takes the same amount of time to get to Union by GO train as it does to drive to Pearson from Scarborough or Pickering in low traffic conditions. In traffic, the subway to Union is faster than driving to Pearson. The Eglinton LRT to Pearson won't change anything at all. If it had been a subway the whole way, maybe. But it isn't.

3) We didn't sink private enterprise on St. Clair to improve the lives of those who live there.

So are you are suggesting that public money be spent for the express purpose of putting a specific airline out of business?

Yep. People like this hate competitive businesses that employ locals and provide improve services to customers. They would rather Porter close down, Air Canada hike its fares and all the jobs that Porter created migrate to Air Canada's base in Montreal.

 

[sjc]

Reclaim the land for Toronto's version of Central Park.

The last time I checked, there is already a park that is quite sizable on Toronto Island.

 

[nfitz]

The last time I checked, there is already a park that is quite sizable on Toronto Island.

And along much of the waterfront. And on Leslie spit. There's so much park along there, I'm amazed that anyone can be found to use it all! Parks are great ... but shouldn't neighbourhoods be balanced? At least it's easy to access Central Park!

 

[jtaylor247]

Well, the island park is clearly a unique asset to Toronto and I think we should make it is as accessible to the public as possible. My point was to make the Island park easily accessible by extending it to the foot of bathurst and connecting it to the Martin Goodman Trail via a Pedestrian/Bicycle bridge.

The islands use as an airport does not seem very compatible with this. If I thought that the services Porter provides were an essential component of Toronto's infrastructure then I would fully support it, but I actually think these services should be largely redundant and unnecessary.

From what I understand, the Montreal, Ottawa and New York Porter routes are the most popular. The fact that Porter flies to Newark cancels out most of the time/monetary savings over YYZ-LGA/JFK flights, and that is without a rail link.

The appropriate way for someone to get to Montreal or Ottawa from the downtown *should* be to take a TGV like train from Union. I realize that seems like a pipe dream, but with climate change becoming more and more of a reality, knocking out these short haul flights is one of the best ways to fight it while providing better service. Also, this would actually cut into Air Canada's bread and butter and I would have no problem having Porter compete with them further at Pearson.

 

[Eug]

Well, the island park is clearly a unique asset to Toronto and I think we should make it is as accessible to the public as possible. My point was to make the Island park easily accessible by extending it to the foot of bathurst and connecting it to the Martin Goodman Trail via a Pedestrian/Bicycle bridge.

The islands use as an airport does not seem very compatible with this. If I thought that the services Porter provides were an essential component of Toronto's infrastructure then I would fully support it, but I actually think these services should be largely redundant and unnecessary.

There was an airport there long before Porter arrived.

Without Porter, it'd still be an airport, but would force short haul flyers waste their time going to Pearson. Now, if they build a maglev to Pearson, maybe there'd be a better reason to move Porter's customers there... but the Centre Island Airport would remain for its other users.

 

[sjc]

The appropriate way for someone to get to Montreal or Ottawa from the downtown *should* be to take a TGV like train from Union.

I think that Porter is quite an appropriate way for me to get to Ottawa.

If a train was put in place that took less than an hour, then I would consider it. But particularly early in the morning, I don't have a lot of time to play with if I want to get to a meeting in downtown Ottawa by 8:30am (which I can easily make with Porter on their 7am flight). I usually leave home near Yonge and Eglinton by cab at around 6am and catch the 6:15am ferry.

 

[jn_12]

I'm at Wellesley & Jarvis with a clear view south to about the eastern end of Centre Island, everything east of that is clear from my POV. Given that's it's dark and that I'm about a mile away I myself can't confirm the aircraft but I'm very familiar with the approach of the planes and I know these are obviously not helicopters. It's possible they are private planes or possibly empty craft returning to the island airport. Bottom line, it's not uncommon to see them coming in for a landing in the middle of the night.

Wouldn't be a Porter plane in the middle of the night. Once the last flight comes in at 11 (well that's curfew at least... sometimes they'll push it to 11:05 or so) there are no pilots on the island. The only people that are Porter related beyond that point is one dispatcher, and a couple mechanics, none of which can fly. It wouldn't be a ferried plane from Pearson because the pilots who ferry the planes from pearson in the morning are the same pilots who then start their normal shift. They would never have two pilots go to Pearson at 2, 3, 4am just to get a plane and bring it to the island because they'd have to pay them for 3 hours (as per labour laws) and it would be redundant since the plane isn't needed until 7am anyways. On days after planes go to Pearson, the first flights in the morning are always delayed because they ferry the planes so that way they arrive when curfew is no longer in effect (6:45am).

Also, the island ferry doesn't run over night. The last ferry is usually at around 11:30-12:00 and the first ferry is at 5:15. So anyone flying in or out after curfew wouldn't be able to get to or from the island. I live on the harbourfront and have never seen a plane come in hours after curfew. Not saying I sit up at night and watch for planes, but all of this doesn't add up.

 

[kEiThZ]

Well, the island park is clearly a unique asset to Toronto and I think we should make it is as accessible to the public as possible. My point was to make the Island park easily accessible by extending it to the foot of bathurst and connecting it to the Martin Goodman Trail via a Pedestrian/Bicycle bridge.

The same argument could be made for the Leslie St. spit. And I'd like to get rid of the island residents as well. They get in the way of my frisbee and kite flying endeavours.

The islands use as an airport does not seem very compatible with this. If I thought that the services Porter provides were an essential component of Toronto's infrastructure then I would fully support it, but I actually think these services should be largely redundant and unnecessary.

The million passengers that Porter is set to attract in 2009 disagree with you. That's more ridership than many TTC stations. Would you consider them redundant and unnecessary?

From what I understand, the Montreal, Ottawa and New York Porter routes are the most popular. The fact that Porter flies to Newark cancels out most of the time/monetary savings over YYZ-LGA/JFK flights, and that is without a rail link.

Porter saves at least an hour or more over travel to and from Pearson. On the other end, Porter is at no comparative disadvantage in Ottawa and Montreal because they land at the same airport as Air Canada and Westjet. Newark is the exception to this rule not the norm. And even there, the travel time difference from Newark to Manhattan compared to LGA to Manhattan isn't that great: 5 minute AirTrain ride to the train station with a half hour ride to New York Penn Station. Hardly onerous and still does not cancel out the travel hassles and time savings in Toronto of accessing Pearson vs. flying from YTZ.

The appropriate way for someone to get to Montreal or Ottawa from the downtown *should* be to take a TGV like train from Union. I realize that seems like a pipe dream, but with climate change becoming more and more of a reality, knocking out these short haul flights is one of the best ways to fight it while providing better service. Also, this would actually cut into Air Canada's bread and butter and I would have no problem having Porter compete with them further at Pearson.

If and when HSR comes true, I would whole-heartedly support the closure of the Island Airport and the relocation of Porter to Pearson. Till then, why should a great piece of infrastructure (YTZ) be left unused?

 

[DavidJamesTO]

And who says it needs to be relocated even then? Porter's fine where it is until all its routes are served by high-speed trains that are competitive with it--and I don't see the New York, Chicago, or Boston, or Maritime routes being supplanted by high speed any time soon. New York and Boston maybe in the long-term, but for the average traveller, the flight is still going to be more appealing.