Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

YYZ or Pearson is mostly going to benefit for its wide range of international connections to the rest of the world. Its domestic service is getting eaten away...
 
DHLawrence85 said:
And who says it needs to be relocated even then? Porter's fine where it is until all its routes are served by high-speed trains that are competitive with it--and I don't see the New York, Chicago, or Boston, or Maritime routes being supplanted by high speed any time soon. New York and Boston maybe in the long-term, but for the average traveller, the flight is still going to be more appealing.
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True enough. Though for me personally, I'd be willing to sacrifice the airport if there was HSR to Ottawa and Montreal with a travel time of less than 3 hours and a service timetable approaching that of Porter's service today.
 
kEiThZ said:
True enough. Though for me personally, I'd be willing to sacrifice the airport if there was HSR to Ottawa and Montreal with a travel time of less than 3 hours and a service timetable approaching that of Porter's service today.
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Yeah, but HSR is still a vision and somewhat a fantasy in this country, It could be 25-30 years before we see any electrified fast rail, meanwhile lets enjoy City Centre Airport while its still around.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Yeah, but HSR is still a vision and somewhat a fantasy in this country, It could be 25-30 years before we see any electrified fast rail, meanwhile lets enjoy City Centre Airport while its still around.
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I'll drink to that....with a beer in a glass (only for those privileged enough to pay Porter's low fares) on my next Porter flight.
 
kEiThZ said:
I'll drink to that....with a beer in a glass (only for those privileged enough to pay Porter's low fares) on my next Porter flight.
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Cheers..
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Though for me personally, I'd be willing to sacrifice the airport if there was HSR to Ottawa and Montreal with a travel time of less than 3 hours and a service timetable approaching that of Porter's service today.
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3 hours is still quite a while, though, for those that go to Ottawa or Montreal and come back on the same day. To get to a meeting at 9am in Ottawa, the train would have to leave Toronto by about 5:30am. With Porter, I can leave my house around 6am and can be in downtown Ottawa for an 8:30am meeting (about 2-1/2h hours door to door). A 3 hour train ride is going to more like 3-1/2 to 4 hours door to door, depending where the train station in Ottawa ends up being (the current station not being particularly downtown).

An extra hour doesn't sound like a lot, but it happens at both ends of your journey, requiring you to get up a lot earlier and be a lot later for dinner.

Incidentally, by 6am, the traffic on the way to Pearson starts to get quite bad and getting to an 8am or 9am flight from Pearson by cab can take quite a while (or going home from a flight returning at 5pm or 6pm at the end of the day).
 
^ True enough. Perhaps the bar for HSR should be 2.5 hrs then.

I arrived at 3 hrs as follows:

30 min travel time including waits for shuttles and ferry from Union station. - It was generous. I know

+

30 mins prior check-in requirement

+

1 hour flight

+

30 mins to retrieve bags. Generous again. I know.

+

30 mins by transit to downtown Ottawa or Montreal from their airports.

Clearly, you're experience shows that 2.5 hrs is achievable with Porter for a regular traveler. I'd be curious about your breakdown. How do you achieve 2.5 hours? You must get there right before the counter closes! And do you cab it on the other end?

Personally, I think HSR would be feasible at 3 hrs or less (preferably it could match Porter's 2.5 hr performance) because it would yield door-to-door of 3.5 hrs (it's only 10 mins from Ottawa's VIA station to downtown). It's not ideal (2.5 hrs would be), but for me that would be level of service I would want before I am willing to let go of YTZ.
 
By the way, SJC, you do know that you are part of the "privileged" elite right? Since you travel to Ottawa for work and try and make it home in time to have dinner with your family, that's the kind of privileged behaviour that some residents in Toronto are clearly opposed to. We can't have that kind of efficient service that improves quality of life around here! This is Toronto. Don't you know you should spend just as long accessing an airport and flying out as it takes to drive to your destination. Get with the program!
 
Clearly, you're experience shows that 2.5 hrs is achievable with Porter for a regular traveler. I'd be curious about your breakdown. How do you achieve 2.5 hours? You must get there right before the counter closes! And do you cab it on the other end?
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The breakdown is something like this:

5:45 am Call for Cab
6:00 am Take cab from Yonge-and-Eglinton to Airport ferry (about 10-12 minutes)
6:12 am Check in at Ferry Terminal check-in machine
6:15 am Take ferry to Airport
6:16 am Arrive at Airport
6:17 am Go through security
6:20 am Pick up a coffee and newspaper, check email, etc. in Porter Lounge
6:45 am Board flight to Ottawa
7:00 am Flight takes off
7:50 am Arrive in Ottawa
8:00 am Grab cab outside terminal
8:20 am Arrive downtown Ottawa at destination

If you miss the 6:15 ferry, the 6:30 ferry is fine. They will often hold the plane if you are running just a little late. Their schedules have some delay time built in. If the ferry is there when I arrive at the terminal, I'll take the ferry and check in on the other side.

None of this involves any level of hurrying.

I don't usually check baggage in Toronto. If I do have a suitcase (which I usually don't), I "gate porter" it so I can grab it on my way off the plane in Ottawa. I will often check it in Ottawa though, as it takes almost no time for them to unload luggage at YTZ.

The cab is about $25 for me at either end ($100 total for the trip). Later in the day, the cab from my apartment to the airport might take a little longer.

NOTE: With "Gate Porter", you carry your suitcase to the door of the plane and give to the attendant there. It will be waiting outside the door of the plane when you get off at the other end.
 
^ Thanks. That timeline is impressive.

I think what's always missed in the debate is the value of YTZ and Porter to those of us living in the east end.

From Morningside Heights its 1.5 hrs to Union by TTC and I only need to reach Union 1 hr before my flight. This means that I can leave 2.5 hrs before my flight. If they do build the tunnel, that could probably shave another 15 mins off the total travel time. If I took Air Canada or Westjet and didn't take an airport bus (used the TTC the whole way), I would have to leave around 3.5 hrs before my flight from Scarborough. If I drive its 2.5 hrs prior in good traffic and 3-3.5 hrs in poor traffic.

This is why I have such a disdain for those who call Porter's customers "privileged". Here I am, an average joe, using the subway to go to the airport and paying a fare that is on par with Air Canada's Tango fares. What is so privileged about that, I don't know.
 
If I drive its 2.5 hrs prior in good traffic and 3-3.5 hrs in poor traffic.
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You can park on the island, although I think it might cost $20.
EDIT: You certainly can't park your car that close to the plane at Pearson.

EDIT: Would Markham Airport on Markham Road be more convenient for you? I've heard talk that if they close Buttonville, they might expand Markham Airport. I suspect there might be a market for at least some Porter flights from there to Ottawa and/or Montreal.

EDIT Again: If it is taking you 3-3.5 hours (before your flight)to drive to the airport, for a flight to Ottawa, you might just as well drive to Ottawa.
 
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kEiThZ: I am wondering how you get to Pearson on the TTC? I realize that checking in at Pearson takes a while so I am not debating any of what you said. I am just genuinely interested because I have actually been pleasantly surprised by the Pearson express bus from Kipling. I live near Spadina station and it is on average 45 minutes for me for 3$. I compare this to JFK to downtown which takes me 75 minutes and costs me 7$.

Again, this is almost off topic and I am not trying to say this is faster or better than getting to YTZ. I get the impression a lot of people think the TTC service is a lot worse than it is. I did take the Lawrence bus which is local one to North Toronto and that was a nightmare. ;)
 
^ A valid question.

Bus to STC from Morningside Heights= 30 mins
STC to Kennedy on the SRT = 15 mins
Kennedy to Kipling on the subway = 55 mins
Pearson Express = 20 mins

Give or take a little.

I did it once. Never again. Now I try and get someone to drive me. Or I fork out the dough to take an Airport Express. Or whenever I can, I Porter it!

I'd also like to draw attention to the fact that the planned Transit City lines will only shave a 15-20 mins off those trips. It'll still be quicker to get to YTZ by TTC.
 
sjc said:
The breakdown is something like this:

5:45 am Call for Cab
6:00 am Take cab from Yonge-and-Eglinton to Airport ferry (about 10-12 minutes)
6:12 am Check in at Ferry Terminal check-in machine
6:15 am Take ferry to Airport
6:16 am Arrive at Airport
6:17 am Go through security
6:20 am Pick up a coffee and newspaper, check email, etc. in Porter Lounge
6:45 am Board flight to Ottawa
7:00 am Flight takes off
7:50 am Arrive in Ottawa
8:00 am Grab cab outside terminal
8:20 am Arrive downtown Ottawa at destination

If you miss the 6:15 ferry, the 6:30 ferry is fine. They will often hold the plane if you are running just a little late. Their schedules have some delay time built in. If the ferry is there when I arrive at the terminal, I'll take the ferry and check in on the other side.

None of this involves any level of hurrying.

I don't usually check baggage in Toronto. If I do have a suitcase (which I usually don't), I "gate porter" it so I can grab it on my way off the plane in Ottawa. I will often check it in Ottawa though, as it takes almost no time for them to unload luggage at YTZ.

The cab is about $25 for me at either end ($100 total for the trip). Later in the day, the cab from my apartment to the airport might take a little longer.

NOTE: With "Gate Porter", you carry your suitcase to the door of the plane and give to the attendant there. It will be waiting outside the door of the plane when you get off at the other end.
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The 6:15 ferry is perfect, but if you're on the 6:30 ferry that's plenty of time too because Ottawa is the last flight to board in a series of flights that depart every 5 minutes. if you're on the 6:45 and they hold the plane for you (as in you're the person they're waiting for and everyone is giving you that "look") be sure to rush to the plane and show your gratitude. It really is a science to get 4 planes out in 20minutes and I remember the first time we got every one of them (YOW, YUL, EWR, MDW) out on time (as in not 1 minute past departure time). When someone is nonchalant about holding up the plane and acting like it's no big deal (even going as far to ask if they can go grab a coffee) it pisses off everyone and can really throw things off. Part of the problem is the current set up whereby every flight is boarded down the same hallway, and that should be fixed with the new terminal.

Anyways, the point is, if it ever happens to you, be quick and understand the situation and make sure to show your thanks to the staff. Even send an email to Porter. It's a small enough company that it'll trickle down to the front line staff and they'll really appreciate it.
 
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