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Barber on Markham Bypass

There are also diminishing returns to scale. All workers get the most generous contract and work rules, for example, and redundant positions are rarely eliminated. It's also a lot harder to manage an organization serving 6 million people than one serving a few hundred thousand. That's why I suggested those areas where regional co-operation really makes sense and there are real economies of scale, like planning, water and sewage, waste management, and social services. I don't think we need an even bigger police department, for example.
 
There are also diminishing returns to scale. All workers get the most generous contract and work rules, for example, and redundant positions are rarely eliminated. It's also a lot harder to manage an organization serving 6 million people than one serving a few hundred thousand. That's why I suggested those areas where regional co-operation really makes sense and there are real economies of scale, like planning, water and sewage, waste management, and social services. I don't think we need an even bigger police department, for example.
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A pretty good point, salaries would definitely sky rocket. You talk about "regional co-operation". I wonder if things like planning, water, waste and sewage shouldn't just be centralized in one regional body? As a pro, I could see a more holistic approach unencumbered by the ward-centric mentality of councilors. As a con, I guess there's a risk of losing touch with the needs of individual communities and neighbourhoods as there may be a one size fits all approach.
 
I wonder if things like planning, water, waste and sewage shouldn't just be centralized in one regional body?
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That's actually what I was suggesting. Those are perfect for service at the regional level, since sharing water, waste and sewage facilities would save everybody a lot of money. It's kind of silly that York Region's sewage has to go in a long pipeline to the east and then down to Durham simply because Toronto refuses to co-operate.
 
Northern Light said:
...another sprawling mess that will ulimately harm the environment, lengthen, not shorten commutes...

Four lanes is better than six.....but two is just fine.
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How do you figure that? The same number of people are living there. And let's be honest, it's going to be decades yet before the city can even afford to have anything but buses there... LRT, subways, flying trolleys hovering over magnetic rails... it's going to be a while. You'll be retiring before you see that. But you imagine that traffic will be better if people have only two lanes to work with. How, exactly? Perhaps they'll get frustrated and have Scotty beam them to work?

Where I lived in Mississauga years ago, Derry Road had to be diverted. And they had to divert it through the conservation area. I was surprised when they did that, and even I felt it was moving into a dangerous area (philosophically speaking). But then I saw how they handled it. Yes, the bridge crosses the river. But they've still kept development out, and people pass through it, know it's there, and keep on going. Traffic doesn't bottleneck on two lanes in the middle of Meadowvale Village like it did in 1990. Now it moves, and has for a decade and a half. Derry and Mavis help people get where they're going and effectively guard the conservation area. And they make people aware it's there, too.

What's going to hurt the environment around Rouge Park is a hundred thousand people all trying to get to work, jammed cheek-to-jowl on a road that suited the needs of seventy-five wheat farmers just fine in 1920.
 
as a resident of morningside heights...

I like to look out my back deck from my big fat house and watch the deer roam.

As far as sprawl goes, it's nice to then leave my big fat house and hop into my big fat suv.

I can afford both. So why is this sprawl? Every house on my street is occupied by one family, so where are these allegations of multiple family coming from? Of course there are homes here and everywhere with multiple families.

My point? Who cares about my huge house on a huge property overlooking the Rouge as i drive away with my big fat suv that i can afford?

I think the point is controlling future transportation sprawl so I can get where I need to so I don't have to run into snivelling little Yaris drivers or half the nimrod's here.

Thanks. I feel much better.
 
suv, am I getting this right --- you are saying your lifestyle choice is affecting no one else, and then suggesting no one else be allowed to make the same choices because it would affect you negatively (as all those other new drivers would clog up the roads) ...?
 
suv said:
I like to look out my back deck from my big fat house and watch the deer roam.

As far as sprawl goes, it's nice to then leave my big fat house and hop into my big fat suv.

I can afford both. So why is this sprawl? Every house on my street is occupied by one family, so where are these allegations of multiple family coming from? Of course there are homes here and everywhere with multiple families.

My point? Who cares about my huge house on a huge property overlooking the Rouge as i drive away with my big fat suv that i can afford?

I think the point is controlling future transportation sprawl so I can get where I need to so I don't have to run into snivelling little Yaris drivers or half the nimrod's here.

Thanks. I feel much better.
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I drive as well, and I also agree that transit is not necessarily the be all end all solution to the GTA's transportation problems. But to be blunt, your post was rude and removed just about all of your credibility.

By the way, you really impress me - you can afford to live in rural Scarborough. Well done mate! For all of your apparent wealth, you were likely priced out of more exclusive suburban areas like Aurora, Oakville, and King City.
 
Chuck said:
By the way, you really impress me - you can afford to live in rural Scarborough. Well done mate! For all of your apparent wealth, you were likely priced out of more exclusive suburban areas like Aurora, Oakville, and King City.
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That's not true. You can buy a crappy slice of Aurora or Oakville for the upper $200s, and newer brick houses comparable to Morningside Heights for ~$500,000; that's probably what suv's house is worth. There's certainly more expensive houses in Aurora and Oakville, but someone who buys a $700,000 house in those places is likely priced out of even more expensive places.
 
you can get a house in milton for 300k easy.
 
Ha ha ha...

Many interpretations of what I said, and you are all correct. Tongue firmly in cheek, yet the comment I guess that summarizes the hypocrisy is the one who calls me mate and tells me I'm priced out of tonier neighbourhoods...

First of all, someone knocked on my door and offered well north of 600k for a private deal on my house (much of it pure equity, never mind the insane mortgage I can qualify for and which I will never take so I can say I live in a shit hole in so called great neighbourhood), so I'm not sure where I'm priced out of - mate. ha ha ha.

I'm 15 minutes from three #1 tee boxes (Cedarbrae, Parkview and Markham); I'm 15 minutes from the Port Union Waterfront Trail and GO; or 10 Minutes to the Milliken GO. 7 mintues to the 401 or 407. If the Peterborough GO line does go through on the Havelock connection, there more than likely would be GO around the corner.

I live in the beautiful Rouge. I drive all over the city and region, beyond Woodbridge (most of the older parts along Islington and Rutherford), I don't see a more scenic environment.

My proximity to the downtown core is easily attained, and so is my proximity to the new downtown of York Region...

Ignorance is bliss. Maybe some will remove their heads from their asses and start to view things objectively. In the coming years, these natural paradises within easy distance of the cultural core of downtown, and economic core of York will be heavily desired. I'll sit and wait, and let all the noise pass me by.

And the issue of transportation. We need real solutions. Addressing all of the region. It's time to take parochial glasses of and deal with moving people around. WHEREVER they chose to live. We have the lines, the technology and the money. Not the will. Nor the courage.

Thanks for the welcome (most of you).
 
some facts.....

unimaginative2 said:
City Report on Markham Bypass Extension


I just don't understand how or why Toronto approved such wretched sprawl. The worst part of it is, the councillors seem to have no idea. They all want to fill it with streetcars because it's so "fast growing" even though it's some of the most transit-unfriendly sprawl built in the last 20 years, whether 416 or 905.
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The city brokered a deal with the environmentalists to get this development done. The area has room for over 5000 homes, but only 2700 were built due to natural wild life corridors, and no building allowed on valley lands. Many of the homes are on ravines or overlooking parks etc. Highly desireable and the homes themselves are very energy efficient and very attractive.

But never mind the homeowners enjoying this bounty. The purpose of this development was to actually 'unplug' the development stall that was going on along Steeles Ave., east and west of Markham Rd. and in the entire adjoining area.

The infrastructure the developers put in - was very cost prohibitive for ANY development to get going - was actually made possible by the development of limited residential housing. This allowed the flourishing of businesses to get developed (Lowes, Super Wal Mart, The Sitara, The Landmark, and many other retail environment with small businesses (lawyers, doctors, etc), all coming in the next year or so - along with many jobs and more tax revenue in the 416). Without this community, the cost prohibition would continue to stall development, future intensification, the possibility of critical mass enticing the GO line and connection a second Box Grove station on the way to Peterborough, etc.

The real growth story and intensification will now begin. Morningside Heights is chapter one of a long process. In 20 years, this area will hardly be sprawl as the region connects in ways we can hardly begin to fathom.

This ladies and gentlemen is called process. It is the igniter for progress. Some little facts to ponder on before tossing accusations...or worse, false information...

The question now is how do we smarly intensify, and create transportation corridors that are sustainable, efficient, user friendly and aesthically pleasing.

These are the real issues worth commenting on....
 
suv, you're suggesting that the urban form developing out that way can be effectively intensified over the next few decades?
 
I'm not saying it can. It must.

To the south is Malvern, reasonably dense, with established infrastructure.
To the north is Markham/Boxgrove.
To the east will be the Pickering Airport for which business cargo flights will be shifted from Pearson.
To the west is East Beaver Creek (14th Ave and Warden on one axis point, to Hwy 7 and Yonge on the other)

Take all of this and the interconnectivity between Stoufville/Uxbridge; Boxgrove/Markham; Pickering/Ajax - all passing thru to go either to York Region or points west into the 416.

Development in the region started in the west, and has now shifted north above the city (almost played out) and is now in full build mode in the east (Ajax, Brooklin).

This is one contiguous region now. The only ones who don't get it is the downtowners singing yesterday's song.

A smart car can deliver 100km/3litres. So peak oil is not the issue. GM is working on it's Volt technology, so suburbia will not die.

If the city grew so much in the last 10 years, where will the growth emanate from? The inner burbs. Not everyone wants to be a rat in a 400 sq. foot condo. In fact the condo will be the only refuge for owners who can't afford land in the 416.

In 20 years, if this city adds 1 Million - guanteed most of this growth will not happen downtown.
 
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