Barber on Markham Bypass

[urbanfan89]

To the south is Malvern, reasonably dense, with established infrastructure.
To the north is Markham/Boxgrove.

Which are basically sprawl with islands of some towers.

To the east will be the Pickering Airport for which business cargo flights will be shifted from Pearson.
To the west is East Beaver Creek (14th Ave and Warden on one axis point, to Hwy 7 and Yonge on the other)

Pickering Airport may likely never see the light of day. Pierre Trudeau floated the idea at the same time as he built Mirabel in Montreal. Look how that turned out.

East Beaver Creek will take a while to densify from its current state as an ocean of office parks.

Take all of this and the interconnectivity between Stoufville/Uxbridge; Boxgrove/Markham; Pickering/Ajax - all passing thru to go either to York Region or points west into the 416.

Development in the region started in the west, and has now shifted north above the city (almost played out) and is now in full build mode in the east (Ajax, Brooklin).

This is one contiguous region now. The only ones who don't get it is the downtowners singing yesterday's song.

Our sprawl is still contiguous, unlike Detroit and Atlanta where suburbia and rural farmland very slowly transition.

A smart car can deliver 100km/3litres. So peak oil is not the issue. GM is working on it's Volt technology, so suburbia will not die.

Soaring energy costs will ripple everywhere into life: food, electricity, manufactured goods, medicine, and clothes will all see big inflation (and we've already started seeing it). Therefore peak oil will force everyone to spend a larger and larger proportion of their income on the very basics. The first casualty will be new subdivisions in Milton or North Pickering. Then it will be single family homes, which may be turned into impromptu apartments.

If the city grew so much in the last 10 years, where will the growth emanate from? The inner burbs. Not everyone wants to be a rat in a 400 sq. foot condo. In fact the condo will be the only refuge for owners who can't afford land in the 416.

Explaining all the new highrises and midrises sprouting in Mississauga, Thornhill, Scarborough, Brampton, and those coming in Pickering, Markham, and Richmond Hill.

In 20 years, if this city adds 1 Million - guanteed most of this growth will not happen downtown.

Most of it will probably come through intensification of existing suburbs. Especially ones that don't entirely rely on cars.

 

[Chuck]

Ah, tongue in cheek, excellent! Sarcasm is one of my favourite types of humour, but you never know with someone new. Sorry to offend you, I'm sure your part of town is fine. I grew up in the suburbs too, and know they aren't all bad.

 

[lordmandeep]

he does have a point, a great deal of the city's growth happened in Yonge corridor north of Eglinton and and in the Yonge and Sheppard area and also in the Agincourt area.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

suv: Morningside Heights will always be sprawl...sprawl doesn't just refer to future developments, it refers to existing subdivisions, too. If the city had to broker a deal with environmentalists to get half the homes built, how likely do you think it is that the area will "smartly intensify" or that dozens of condos and office buildings will sprout along Starry or Boulderbrook?

 

[Chuck]

Most of the city is sprawl for that matter, but as suv said, only the well connected sprawl with balanced transportation options will remain desirable and even sustainable in the future. Most people prefer quieter areas - myself included which - is why I left downtown no sooner than when I graduated from university. Quieter doesn't have to mean unsustainable though, so long as responsible development principles are used.

My census tract has a density of nearly 10,000 people per square kilometre, and yet it's usually birds that wake me up in the morning. It's fantastic!

 

[adma]

Ha ha ha...

Many interpretations of what I said, and you are all correct. Tongue firmly in cheek, yet the comment I guess that summarizes the hypocrisy is the one who calls me mate and tells me I'm priced out of tonier neighbourhoods...

First of all, someone knocked on my door and offered well north of 600k for a private deal on my house (much of it pure equity, never mind the insane mortgage I can qualify for and which I will never take so I can say I live in a shit hole in so called great neighbourhood), so I'm not sure where I'm priced out of - mate. ha ha ha.

I'm 15 minutes from three #1 tee boxes (Cedarbrae, Parkview and Markham); I'm 15 minutes from the Port Union Waterfront Trail and GO; or 10 Minutes to the Milliken GO. 7 mintues to the 401 or 407. If the Peterborough GO line does go through on the Havelock connection, there more than likely would be GO around the corner.

I live in the beautiful Rouge. I drive all over the city and region, beyond Woodbridge (most of the older parts along Islington and Rutherford), I don't see a more scenic environment.

My proximity to the downtown core is easily attained, and so is my proximity to the new downtown of York Region...

Ignorance is bliss. Maybe some will remove their heads from their asses and start to view things objectively. In the coming years, these natural paradises within easy distance of the cultural core of downtown, and economic core of York will be heavily desired. I'll sit and wait, and let all the noise pass me by.

And the issue of transportation. We need real solutions. Addressing all of the region. It's time to take parochial glasses of and deal with moving people around. WHEREVER they chose to live. We have the lines, the technology and the money. Not the will. Nor the courage.

Thanks for the welcome (most of you).

What do you think of this building?

 

[suv]

@Urbanfan89 & adma (among others I'm sure).

I take it you hate that one can live within the Rouge (or name similar place in Ontario) on a very quiet tree lined cul de sac or whichever. I take it you must hate watching the birds sing from the willows beyond your fence. That you must hate watching the deer prance along the valley bed and you can almost reach out and touch them.

That you must hate watching the willows billow in the sultry summer heat as you sip a nice fruity beverage with the appropriae mix of 'enhancements' from your recliner on the deck.

That you must hate that your children can forge into the valley right in your backyard to witness the tad poles in the creek.

That you must hate they can check out the dens the animals make.

That's fine. Enjoy the crammed downtowns of the world. I enjoy it too. Love to get back so I can toss a well seasoned slab of moo moo on the hot grill and just chill...

Starry and Boulderbrook are wonderful streets with big ass houses with big ass views of nature. Ah, such a bitch to live in suburbia.... ha ha ha...amongst the deer and the birds in your big ass house.

You know. There are different choices for different folks. What would be nice is to respect the choices others have made. We can all save the world in different ways. I can drive whatever and live whereever, and I can still donate more to the third world or children's programs in this city, than merely mouth rhetoric than most others.

What we can all do without is the adolescent arrogance to counter every point with points that can be undone with mere twixing of language, but I'll leave that to the arrogant and their self imposed importance to have a counter point (whether valid, irrelevant, or just made up).

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Can't we all get along." ha ha ha....

 

[suv]

Ah, tongue in cheek, excellent! Sarcasm is one of my favourite types of humour, but you never know with someone new. Sorry to offend you, I'm sure your part of town is fine. I grew up in the suburbs too, and know they aren't all bad.

Chuck, you da man! Getting sarcasm that is. Look the whole friggin GTA is one giant suburb. Just cause there are some ugly, and I do meant butt ugly condos grouped together and they are liveable or sustainable does not mean it's desirable.

It just means that a bunch of 20 and 30 somethings can have a place to get together every Friday to dumb the pain of realizing they own no land and have to live in 400 square feet of space.

Space is luxury. Always has been. Always will be. No question you will pay for it. Last time I checked this was a democratic capitalist nation. Choice.

 

[adma]

@Urbanfan89 & adma (among others I'm sure).

I take it you hate that one can live within the Rouge (or name similar place in Ontario) on a very quiet tree lined cul de sac or whichever. I take it you must hate watching the birds sing from the willows beyond your fence. That you must hate watching the deer prance along the valley bed and you can almost reach out and touch them.

That you must hate watching the willows billow in the sultry summer heat as you sip a nice fruity beverage with the appropriae mix of 'enhancements' from your recliner on the deck.

That you must hate that your children can forge into the valley right in your backyard to witness the tad poles in the creek.

That you must hate they can check out the dens the animals make.

That's fine. Enjoy the crammed downtowns of the world. I enjoy it too. Love to get back so I can toss a well seasoned slab of moo moo on the hot grill and just chill...

Starry and Boulderbrook are wonderful streets with big ass houses with big ass views of nature. Ah, such a bitch to live in suburbia.... ha ha ha...amongst the deer and the birds in your big ass house.

You know. There are different choices for different folks. What would be nice is to respect the choices others have made. We can all save the world in different ways. I can drive whatever and live whereever, and I can still donate more to the third world or children's programs in this city, than merely mouth rhetoric than most others.

What we can all do without is the adolescent arrogance to counter every point with points that can be undone with mere twixing of language, but I'll leave that to the arrogant and their self imposed importance to have a counter point (whether valid, irrelevant, or just made up).

In the immortal words of Rodney King "Can't we all get along." ha ha ha....

You're talking a lot about nature. But what I offered you was a picture of Scarborough College--an architectural masterwork of the 1960s. Which is *also* something you should be proud you have out there.

That you didn't seem to have a clue about it proves that, basically, you're a philistine...

 

[suv]

You're talking a lot about nature. But what I offered you was a picture of Scarborough College--an architectural masterwork of the 1960s. Which is *also* something you should be proud you have out there.

That you didn't seem to have a clue about it proves that, basically, you're a philistine...

By philistine, do you mean uncultured or merely having ancestors from Philistia, world travellers that we are, we could have been passing through, though I'm not quite certain, we didn't keep tidy records.

And, um, yes I know the building. I visit it very often to use the recreational facilities. And truth be know it no longer stands alone. Us philistines in suburbia fought against them adding several other architectural gems that now surround fortress UTSC. But you know, shite happens. Infrastructure, people gather...blah blah and before you know it, you are an intensifed densified urban classified gentrified conglomerized quagmarized summarized pluariled palace of learning. Damn you urbanistas. Didn't I tell you to leave suburbia well alone. That there is no process. There is no progress. Shite don't happen. Please look away.

And furhermore sir. I request that you no longer call me philistine. But do please call me 'Sir Philistine'. Have a philthy day.

 

[Dan416]

Does this new noob, "suv", remind anyone of anyone?

 

[Chuck]

Chuck, you da man! Getting sarcasm that is. Look the whole friggin GTA is one giant suburb. Just cause there are some ugly, and I do meant butt ugly condos grouped together and they are liveable or sustainable does not mean it's desirable.

It just means that a bunch of 20 and 30 somethings can have a place to get together every Friday to dumb the pain of realizing they own no land and have to live in 400 square feet of space.

Space is luxury. Always has been. Always will be. No question you will pay for it. Last time I checked this was a democratic capitalist nation. Choice.

To each his own I guess. I own no land and live in an apartment, but believe it or not that was actually a choice! My rent is much lower than my mortgage payments would have been, therefore I put the difference into savings and end up doing just fine in the end. I'm not one of those people that needs space to be happy; instead, I derive satisfaction from living in a great neighbourhood, having a great view, and being able to furnish my apartment with nice things - as small as it may be.

 

[EnviroTO]

Does this new noob, "suv", remind anyone of anyone?

Not to nit pick but Rouge park is an arbitrary embodiment of nature. It cannot be personified. If anything skills brim through by the usage.

 

[junctionist]

It has to be tongue-in-cheek, but the persistence can deceive.

I love the attempts at asking for the suburb's supposed due respect, then proceeding to insult urban living embodied by the condo. Hopefully, everyone notices that rift.

 

[suv]

To each his own I guess. I own no land and live in an apartment, but believe it or not that was actually a choice! My rent is much lower than my mortgage payments would have been, therefore I put the difference into savings and end up doing just fine in the end. I'm not one of those people that needs space to be happy; instead, I derive satisfaction from living in a great neighbourhood, having a great view, and being able to furnish my apartment with nice things - as small as it may be.

Chuck, I actually totally agree with you! I absolutely believe true beauty is actually in the smaller simplified life lived. There are many people living beyond means...just look at what's happening to the US, Spain, UK now. It's funny to read the other comments about 'noob' etc. There is definitely an elitist know it all slant that is most humorous to observe from the comments.

The urban life for sure will be the most sustainable. However, the point is this is an infrastrucuture/transportation issue, and the most effective use for those who live in Milton, Brooklin, Ajax, Pickering, Vaughn, Richmond Hill etc., will best be served by utilizing existing infrastructure.

For example, utilizing the Havelock line as a direct north east link from Union to Peterborough, will pick up commuters from Soufville, Uxbridge, Boxgrove, a station at Steeles would let Pickering/Ajax commuters ditch the cars here, it would serve Scarborough and I would imagine wind into East York on the way to Union.

As well this would be a boon to cottagers in the Peterborough area alleviating gridlock.

The Pickering Airport IS COMING. The plans for the cargo aspect is there as Pearson is once again living near capacity.

The gist of the article quoted is that yes, we have to look at investing in existing infrastructure. Rail would seem the best choice, if we have that as a choice as opposed to building another road.

How do we move people effectively. This is the crux of the question.

The other stuff about suburban/urban tension is quite silly and a red herring to the other issues of mobility and transportation. Whether in Vaughn or Scarborough or North York. People will live and commute.

How we get where we want to will impact the quality of all of us.