Apple Store

[zang]

Apple products being better built is highly debatable. There are a lot of high quality options out there.

"Highly debatable"? Their phones and computers keep topping top 10 and best lists and there's almost always a mention of "build quality" being one of the big reasons for that, but okay...

What technological innovation is taking place that would render a three year old phone irrelevant? Smartphones have kind of hit a wall in that department. Better specs each year, but they basically do the same thing.

Apple generally supports their phones for at least 5 years with their software updates, often a year or two longer. The current iOS14 supports a phone from 2016 (6s) and iPadOS an iPad from 2015 (Air 2). That doesn't seem like they're making three year old phones "irrelevant" to me. You get far less software support for a TV, which arguably should last longer. You're lucky if you get a year of firmware updates on most consumer products these days.

That's the point I'm making here. Apple (and other smartphone makers) are not introducing 'innovation' that extends the life of your phone (or makes it easy for you to do so). It's just the opposite. In fact, Apple lost a lawsuit for intentionally slowing older phones,

I hate when people bring this up because it's made out to be some kind of "gotcha". However, it didn't slow down all older phones, just those with a battery life percentage below a certain threshold. I am well aware of the problem this was meant to curb as it happened on an older model many times, especially at cold temperatures. There'd be too much of a power draw from the processor or antenna and the older, cold battery in my phone was simply incapable of supplying enough current and boom, the phone faults with a hard reset. Here's hoping you weren't writing to eMMC at the time or you might end up with a bricked phone or corrupted data. A battery replacement solved that.

It wasn't slowing a phone down to make people upgrade as you imply, it was slowing a phone down to avoid a kernel panic.

If that same *old* phone had a fresh, newly installed battery, it would not be slowed down. So, yeah.
.

and they're at the top of the industry when it comes to practices like changing connection standards to push adoption of new accessories, etc.

They're one of the few companies actually investing in and creating new connection standards. But aside from that, if a change is made now as opposed to two years from now, does it make a difference? Apple taking the lead in adopting new connections doesn't mean they're trying to make bank from it. In fact, once a connection standard is adopted, accessories (due to economy of scale in components, etc.) are often cheaper to make and leave more margin for profit. USB and USB accessories existed before Apple put USB on the original iMac, but their adoption of it was inarguably what saved it and the reason it's so widespread today. Today's early adoption is tomorrow's legacy support.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

My old iPhones never goes to waste even after the 2-3 year period of my contract - the rest of my family (who doesn't really care much about tech) gets to reuse them. My repurposed iPhone 6 is still going strong, ditto an old iPad Air (1st gen). By the time they truly go to the pasture it would have been in use for 5, 6 years minimum.

AoD

 

[zang]

My old iPhones never goes to waste even after the 2-3 year period of my contract - the rest of my family (who doesn't really care much about tech) gets to reuse them. My repurposed iPhone 6 is still going strong, ditto an old iPad Air (1st gen). By the time they truly go to the pasture it would have been in use for 5, 6 years minimum.

AoD

On that note, CNIB takes old phones off your hands and refurbishes them for those blind or with sight impairments.

CNIB - Phone it Forward

The Phone It Forward program offers a unique opportunity for individuals to support the CNIB by donating eligible smartphones that will be used to make a positive impact on the lives of individuals who are blind.

www.phoneitforward.ca

They particularly like Apple products though, as they're also a company dedicated to being as accessible as possible.

 

[syn]

"Highly debatable"? Their phones and computers keep topping top 10 and best lists and there's almost always a mention of "build quality" being one of the big reasons for that, but okay...

Survey after survey after survey shows that Apple products are built better, perform more consistently than their competitors do, and they last longer because of that. My iPhone 6S lasted six years, and my new 11 Pro has so much more powerful of a battery that I only have to charge it every second day, and it's not showing any dropoff yet. I once went swimming with my iPhone 6S, so that necessitated a new battery at one point. If I were to swim with my 11 Pro, it would be fine as the eliminated headphone jack (has not been an issue for me) means the new phone is far more watertight.

You claim Apple invented planned obsolescence, only now being adopted by their competitors. That boggles the mind. Competition begets innovation which begets eventual obsolescence… and that's the story for both hardware and software. Hardware Company A produces something fantastic based on the latest innovations, and Hardware Companies B, C, D, and E, etc. are then driven to try to beat them with their next products. Because the phones are now more powerful, Software Company F then adds a pile of bells and whistles to its app, taking advantage of the processing power on the new phones… but the app now runs more slowly on the older phones, and might not run at all on the older models. Meanwhile, no company has done a better job of releasing system software updates for older models than Apple, meaning that a 6 year old model of iPhone will still be able to be updated, something that's been far sketchier in the Android world.

Similar to my iPhone experience, my MacBook Pro is working very well, now in its 7th year, because of the quality construction and system software that's kept up to date. That's twice the average lifespan of a Windows laptop. In the electronic consumables world, Apple ain't the problem.

42

I'm glad you've had great experiences with Apple. They make good products, no doubt about that. I'm not suggesting Apple is a bad choice.

If you step outside the Apple ecosystem, however, there are plenty of long lasting, high quality options for phones and other devices. Some are arguably better from a quality and innovation perspective. Apple had a reputation for quality and innovation but that's taken a hit in recent years. I'd say at this point in the smartphone world Apple is usually playing catch-up from an innovation perspective.

Asus has long had a reputation for quality. HP has improved dramatically too. I have a non-Apple convertible laptop that's still running like new after 5 years. My Samsung Galaxy S2 from 10 years ago was still lasting a full day after 4 years. It was also extremely durable (my Iphone using friends were also a little jealous of the large screen). My S7 Edge is still going strong years later.

The kind of innovation you're mentioning is not what I'm referring to. I'm referencing the removal of useful features or changes in connection standards for no good reason. I know the latter has been frustrating for a few Apple users I know.

It goes back to what I asked earlier - what useful innovation killed the headphone jack? Wireless earbuds? I can use those on a phone with a headphone jack. You mentioned your 11 Pro being water resistant, but Samsung phones dating back to the S7 have had the same IP68 rating with headphone jacks.

What innovation justified Samsung's removal of the Micro SD card slot? None I can think of.

These are practical features with a minimal impact to the design.

Such 'innovations' benefit the phone makers.

That's fine - I expect corporations to try and make as much money as possible. But it's hard to see sustainability is any sort of major priority when these companies have such a clear focus.

 

[JasonParis]

Survey after survey after survey shows that Apple products are built better, perform more consistently than their competitors do, and they last longer because of that. My iPhone 6S lasted six years, and my new 11 Pro has so much more powerful of a battery that I only have to charge it every second day, and it's not showing any dropoff yet. I once went swimming with my iPhone 6S, so that necessitated a new battery at one point. If I were to swim with my 11 Pro, it would be fine as the eliminated headphone jack (has not been an issue for me) means the new phone is far more watertight.

CBC Marketplace did a somewhat scientific study on this a few episodes back and Apple came out ahead. It will be on Gem too.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Asus has long had a reputation for quality. HP has improved dramatically too. I have a non-Apple convertible laptop that's still running like new after 5 years. My Samsung Galaxy S2 from 10 years ago was still lasting a full day after 4 years. It was also extremely durable (my Iphone using friends were also a little jealous of the large screen). My S7 Edge is still going strong years later.

ASUS products are way overrated - I am using a Zenbook and find it full of little glitches that - while not outright fails - are annoying enough for me not to consider them again. Unimpressive thermals (massive throttling and an awful hairdryer fan, so-so build quality that required key replacements a year in, PWM LCD). Even Dell (XPS laptops) is superior - and it isn't even all that cheap relative to Apple or Dell.

If not for my dependence on the Windows ecosystem I would have jumped ship to the new M1 Apple laptops. Apple desktops are a no-go unfortunately as a gamer (plus not being a huge fan of AIO systems - unless someone want to gift me Surface Studio, in which case I'd gladly eat my words and take it).

AoD

 

[afransen]

ASUS makes good components. Integrating them into a final product is still not as good as others.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

ASUS makes good components. Integrating them into a final product is still not as good as others.

They make decent components but my experiences with other brands (Gigabyte, EVGA, Corsair) had been fine as well (7 going 8 years - no component failures). I am due for a new build this year - so component shopping will be fun!

re: Apple innovation

The true innovation in Apple mobile tech isn't at the peripheral - but stuff that their competitor had a very difficult time replicating simply because of the lack of vertical integration - i.e. SOC. It's is consistently on the bleeding edge.

AoD

 

[afransen]

Apple outperforms on things like SOC and power consumption (with software vertical integration), but uses that to undersize battery and RAM, not so much to ensure future-proofing of devices. Seems like they use it to cut corners while still being acceptable, and still charging premium prices.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Apple outperforms on things like SOC and power consumption (with software vertical integration), but uses that to undersize battery and RAM, not so much to ensure future-proofing of devices. Seems like they use it to cut corners while still being acceptable, and still charging premium prices.

Yes and no - considering how battery life had improved over the last few gens of devices (and definitely true for the new M1 notebooks). Also specs has nothing to do with future-proofing - actual performance determines future-proofing. I couldn't care less how much RAM my phone has - the important thing is what it can do with what it has within the lifetime of the device.

AoD

 

[syn]

ASUS products are way overrated - I am using a Zenbook and find it full of little glitches that - while not outright fails - are annoying enough for me not to consider them again. Unimpressive thermals (massive throttling and an awful hairdryer fan, so-so build quality that required key replacements a year in, PWM LCD). Even Dell (XPS laptops) is superior - and it isn't even all that cheap relative to Apple or Dell.

If not for my dependence on the Windows ecosystem I would have jumped ship to the new M1 Apple laptops. Apple desktops are a no-go unfortunately as a gamer (plus not being a huge fan of AIO systems - unless someone want to gift me Surface Studio, in which case I'd gladly eat my words and take it).

AoD

That's unfortunate.

All my Asus experiences have been excellent.

 

[zang]

Apple outperforms on things like SOC and power consumption (with software vertical integration), but uses that to undersize battery and RAM, not so much to ensure future-proofing of devices. Seems like they use it to cut corners while still being acceptable, and still charging premium prices.

It's a balance between a number of factors, rather than "cutting corners" (not something Apple has seriously been accused of doing). Yes, reducing power means the battery can be smaller, but with that smaller size comes lower weight and lower heat, more room for other components, etc. I'm pretty sure Apple has a goal of X hours based on what 80% of users need and builds accordingly, rather than cramming as much battery in as possible. If you're only using so much of your battery on an average day, is it worth it having more that goes unused as a "just in case"?

How many people have ever had to use their emergency spare in a car? There's a small case (tire blowout) where a spare is useful, but knocks a percent or more off your overall fuel economy. About a third of all new cars now don't ship with a spare in the name of mileage. Many have manufacturer's roadside and can get you a new full-size tire on the spot, rather than drive on a donut for a while first.

 

[afransen]

do you mean that their laptops are not good?

Not that they are bad, but the integration is not as polished as you might get from a Dell XPS or Macbook.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Not that they are bad, but the integration is not as polished as you might get from a Dell XPS or Macbook.

Plus lots of bloatware. And yes - the absolute worst fingerprint sensor I have *ever* came across - it failed to detect and unlocked more often than it had successfully detect and unlock. Utter garbage.

AoD

 

[Johnny Au]

Let me summon MacRumors writer Joe Rossignol here:

@rsgnl

As a proud owner of various Apple products since 2013 (with my MacBook Pro), it's really exciting to see the Apple Store in The One being built up.

There is absolutely no doubt The One would be Toronto's flagship Apple Store.

Since then, I have a 2019 27" retina iMac, a 2019 10.2" iPad, and an iPhone 12 Pro Max.

I enjoy reading your articles on MacRumors (as well as some of your colleagues' articles).