Tulse
Senior Member
As a secular atheist, I'd prefer that the state be very careful about banning speech.
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Advertising on the TTC
- Thread starter raquel
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Agreed. If people want to believe in the Tooth Fairy, let them be.
The problem is though, that many (if not most) religions, have a history, and still continue, to use their institutions to violate basic human rights.
voxpopulicosmicum
Senior Member
Agreed. This "big thing" is just the umpteenth attempt to bring the Culture War to Canada, and seems to have all the same miscreant bigots lined up on side, on cue.
If I may share a parable from my commute this morning: I was on the streetcar with an obviously crazy person and a bunch of people who, if crazy, were less obvious about it. The crazy person was wearing headphones and muttering to herself, but after a while she started talking louder and then, to nobody in particular, yelled "This is the last time I'll tell you: If you don't stop that god damn whistling I'm going to take you out!"
A guy sitting a few rows forward then decided to start whistling. Crazy person stood up and started screaming at whistling guy. Whistling guy told her to shut up and mind her own business. Crazy person tried to spit on whistler and instead hit two people in between. People moved between whistler and crazy person to prevent physical altercation, and crazy person ran to the rear doors and started screaming for the driver to stop, and banging her head against and pushing on the doors, causing the alarm bell to ring, until we arrived at the next stop. Crazy person then stood on the sidewalk calling whistler to come off the streetcar and fight. When the streetcar started moving, crazy person took a final charge at the streetcar and smacked the window next to whistler.
As we pulled away, the crazy person was the subject of derisive comments from a few passengers and the driver, but then whistler finally admitted that maybe he shouldn't have started whistling, as he didn't know crazy person would do what she did.
My point is this: crazy people are going to do crazy things, and sometimes they will attempt to goad others into participating in their craziness. Even though the non-crazies are within their rights to engage the crazies head-on, it is counterproductive to do so. One should be wary of joining McVety and Banerjee and other assorted crazy bigots to play in their sandbox of craziness. Unless non-crazies have a solution to craziness, non-crazies cannot win and can only lose in such an engagement.
I'm not sure where to draw the line in pointing out craziness vs. ignoring it.
Tulse
Senior Member
The discussion is getting a bit afield and more general, so I'll just say that I agree with that assessment, but don't think the best way to deal with it is censorship. (Frankly, given the kerfluffle from other religious groups about the ad, I think it's actually more effective to have people see what religions actually believe laid bare.)
nfitz
Superstar
I agree - but at what point do we stop giving known hate-based groups like those run by McVety free licence to say whatever they want and promote hate?
JWBF
Senior Member
The first thing that came to my mind was the main contentions between India and Pakistan.
I support the TTC, it is a business and as such should not have differing support for anything; ad revenue is just that, revenue.
My question is should the term "secular" be used or should we use "indifferent".
I support the TTC, it is a business and as such should not have differing support for anything; ad revenue is just that, revenue.
My question is should the term "secular" be used or should we use "indifferent".
SlickFranky
Active Member
This religious stuff is all incredibly boring to me....so let's see if I can't derail this thread a bit.
There is a series of adds running throughout the TTC lately promoting the brilliant idea of not leaving your trash all over the place. There's a coffee cup on the floor, a banana peel on a seat, and there was a newspaper left on a subway seat.
Maybe a week later another series of adds came out for Metro, promoting their share-ablilty. They think the best part about their paper is how you can leave it on the train. I have seen none of the anti-leaving-your-papers-on-the-train adds since the Metro adds went up. Discuss.
There is a series of adds running throughout the TTC lately promoting the brilliant idea of not leaving your trash all over the place. There's a coffee cup on the floor, a banana peel on a seat, and there was a newspaper left on a subway seat.
Maybe a week later another series of adds came out for Metro, promoting their share-ablilty. They think the best part about their paper is how you can leave it on the train. I have seen none of the anti-leaving-your-papers-on-the-train adds since the Metro adds went up. Discuss.
ShonTron
Moderator
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I'm all in favour of generalising this thread.
I'm not sure if leaving Metro papers (or Quebecor's 24 for that matter) is a good thing. If someone wants that seat it is left on, it'll inevitably end up on the floor.
I'm not sure if leaving Metro papers (or Quebecor's 24 for that matter) is a good thing. If someone wants that seat it is left on, it'll inevitably end up on the floor.
adma
Superstar
Unless it's folded and stuck btw/the seat and the wall, of course (which seems to be the official "seat-freeing" way of sharing one's Metro/24)
Johnny Au
Senior Member
I am in favour of generalizing the thread as well, since there are many controversial ads (many of which have nothing to do with religion) on TTC property.
http://torontoist.com/2009/04/ttc_kills_the_radio_star/
Some people interpret this as condoning suicide.
There was a Toronto Star article published three years ago about a teacher who successfully persuaded Sony to pull a bus shelter ad for a violent PS3 game.
I remember that the TTC once advertised a movie with "Porno" in its name and another movie with "A**" (but uncensored) in its name in the subway system.
I believe that the Virgin Radio ad was being playful and not condoning suicide. The teacher did the right thing in pulling the violent video game ad, especially given that the game is suitable for those 17+ and the ad in question is next to an elementary school, which happened to be enrolled by many students who fled war-torn countries. Though nobody complained about the "Porno" movie and the "A**" movie being advertised, I believed that they should have censored the names of those films (both films have their names censored in their respective advertisements in the more conservative parts of the United States) but allow them to be advertised and I am saying this as a progressive.
What do you think of those controversial ads on TTC property?
http://torontoist.com/2009/04/ttc_kills_the_radio_star/
Some people interpret this as condoning suicide.
There was a Toronto Star article published three years ago about a teacher who successfully persuaded Sony to pull a bus shelter ad for a violent PS3 game.
I remember that the TTC once advertised a movie with "Porno" in its name and another movie with "A**" (but uncensored) in its name in the subway system.
I believe that the Virgin Radio ad was being playful and not condoning suicide. The teacher did the right thing in pulling the violent video game ad, especially given that the game is suitable for those 17+ and the ad in question is next to an elementary school, which happened to be enrolled by many students who fled war-torn countries. Though nobody complained about the "Porno" movie and the "A**" movie being advertised, I believed that they should have censored the names of those films (both films have their names censored in their respective advertisements in the more conservative parts of the United States) but allow them to be advertised and I am saying this as a progressive.
What do you think of those controversial ads on TTC property?
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Still Waters
New Member
Leave it to the religious groups to manufacture a disagreement that inevitably escalates, helped along by those who relish a fight. Through history, wars have been started over less, but heaven forbid (no offence) we should learn anything. This whole issue is ridiculous and a waste of time and energy. This city has more pressing problems than what some religion is saying in an ad on the bus. As long as there is no hate being preached in the ads, and I don't see any, then they should be left alone. Move along, nothing to see here.
Electrify
Senior Member
I'm no religious scholar, but my understanding is that Muslims, Christians, and Jews all believe in the same god. They all just worship him in different ways. So if you are a member of and of these three religions, then you technically believe what this text says. And considering that the Hindu group up in arms is essentially one guy and his gym friends, then this whole thing is mute.
That said, I can see how someone could be offended by this ad. It essentially states that your faith is wrong. To say such a damning thing is going to upset people, and could encourage some zealots to act violently to those who disagree.
On a more general theme, I do think ads on the TTC should be as uncontroversial as possible. Unlike other outdoor media which you can walk right by, passengers are required to be exposed to ads for an extended period of time as they wait or ride a vehicle. Sorry if wanting to travel to my destination without being grossly offended is too much to ask.
That said, I can see how someone could be offended by this ad. It essentially states that your faith is wrong. To say such a damning thing is going to upset people, and could encourage some zealots to act violently to those who disagree.
On a more general theme, I do think ads on the TTC should be as uncontroversial as possible. Unlike other outdoor media which you can walk right by, passengers are required to be exposed to ads for an extended period of time as they wait or ride a vehicle. Sorry if wanting to travel to my destination without being grossly offended is too much to ask.
Tulse
Senior Member
Ask a Muslim or Jew if Jesus is god, and see how true your claim is. There is no doubt that these three religions all spring from the same source, but their current theology is very different and incompatible. (And, of course, in multicultural Toronto there are plenty of people who are not Muslim, Christian, or Jewish.)
Yes, but that is precisely what Islam believes of other religions -- wouldn't it be deceptive to claim otherwise? (And, to be clear, most religions believe the same thing about their competitors.)
nfitz
Superstar
From what little exposure I've had to religion, I'm not even sure that the American Evangelical Lutheran Synod and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod believe in the same god, the way they belittle each other.
Let's look at it this way. Do you believe the Captain Kirk in the current movies is the same Captain Kirk in the old series and movies? And if you do, do you believe that Starbuck in the original Battlestar Galactica series is the same as the Starbuck in the recent series.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
The Bus Stop Bible Studies people released a new ad in Traditional Chinese writing.
I saw it inside a TTC bus.
I saw it inside a TTC bus.