About the Toronto Sun

[TOareaFan]

Does SunTV have a newscast? Anytime I've flicked past, it's seemed to be magazine style shows with a host going on endlessly about something, rather than a newscast.

I am having trouble finding where I used the word newscast He just feels that all current affairs stuff can be had by watching the station. Despite my right-leanings, I find the station to be very amateurish in presentation and "form" and at times unwatchable. He accused me of being closed minded and I should give it a try.....so since then I have tuned in twice....the first time I saw a host discuss for, at least, 15 minutes why overweight women should be banned from wearing yoga apparal and the second time two guys were actually debating how we should decide between the Bear and the Beaver as our national animal and that we should have them contest a UFC cage-type match.

I left with the impression, again, that they do not take news seriously enough for me.

That aside, he likes it because he is a far right guy and, I suspect, takes comfort from hearing people say things that he feels. I kinda shocked him when I said I actually look for my news from places that are less likely to feel the same as me as I already know how I feel and getting a different perspective can be challenging and thought provoking.

 

[adma]

When it comes to the Sun, I think where you can still get a vestige of the "general audience" leanings of old is in the arts/entertainment/culture/lifestyle coverage--I guess it's like the Fox Network (Simpsons and all) versus Fox News. (And the only time when any of that traipses into Sun Media hard-rightness is not specific to the arts section, but rather whenever Peter Worthington grumbles about the AGO blackballing Robert Bateman, or Sue-Ann Levy recycles old gripes about that imported Muskoka boulder in Yorkville Park. Not "arts" stuff, but "general editorial" stuff.)

 

[Electrify]

I found this thread through a Google search, but figured it would be a good place to ask this: is the Sun worse than Fox News? I'm asking for someone who is familiar with both, not just assumptions. I once read an article about that controversial internet law about a year ago on Fox, and I was surprised with how balanced it was. It seems the Sun just blindly supports right wing dogma without question.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I found this thread through a Google search, but figured it would be a good place to ask this: is the Sun worse than Fox News? I'm asking for someone who is familiar with both, not just assumptions. I once read an article about that controversial internet law about a year ago on Fox, and I was surprised with how balanced it was. It seems the Sun just blindly supports right wing dogma without question.

The fox online editorials are apparently quite decent compared to their broadcasts.

That's what I've heard from my friend in the US of A.

 

[ShonTron]

Sky News, a Murdoch-controlled news source, seems to at least try to appear relatively balanced; the British wouldn't put up with the crap at Fox News. Neither do Canadians, at least on TV. CTV is more subtle with their pro-Harper stance.

I say this as I'm in England now and I've watched Sky's coverage of Thatcher's death. Nothing near what Fox on the States would show.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I enjoy watching Fox news on the odd occasion as a sampling of bias news in that region of the political spectrum. On the other hand I have absolutely no urge to consume content from the Sun. The only local news source that is perhaps worse than the Sun is Now magazine.

 

[Electrify]

I enjoy watching Fox news on the odd occasion as a sampling of bias news in that region of the political spectrum. On the other hand I have absolutely no urge to consume content from the Sun. The only local news source that is perhaps worse than the Sun is Now magazine.

I don't mind Now, but I am left of centre so I tend to agree with their articles usually. I can see someone who is a conservative having similar feelings towards it as I do the Sun, however.

That said, would you say Fox News is more comparable to the National Post (right winged but relatively intelligent) or the Toronto Sun (die hard right winged fanatics)?

 

[RC8]

Fox News and The Sun are equivalent to one another, but Fox News tries to convince their audience that they are fair and balanced - whereas the Sun doesn't because they couldn't get away with that in Canada.

Both are mostly sources of disinformation financed by power-hungry corporate elites. They seek to align poor uneducated people behind them through fear-tactics. And it works!

 

[jje1000]

The Sun sometimes raises good points, but it's drowned in vitrol and hatred towards the left. There's no attempt at actually discussing solutions or explaining the situation out fully, just a whole lot of anger.

Other times, it's purely mud raking.

 

[OttoSchloss]

IQs must have drastically dropped over the past 2 decades. Perhaps TPTB are putting crap in the water because only in North America would people actually be defending a rag like the Sun as if it had any journalistic merit. It doesn't. Never has and never will. It is what it is, which is to say it's a primer for knuckle draggers. No one in Europe even pretends that their tabloids are serious newspapers, not sure why North Americans have to even fake that the inky stench that emanates from tabloids like the Sun have any legitimacy at all.

Although it seems like a good place to start out a career straight outta Community College or High School.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

The Sun is a strange beast. I've been reading it (and the other Toronto papers) since about 1990, and my memories of the Sun up until perhaps the turn of the last century is of a paper that, yes, is right-wing, but it seems to me it used to be something more. I recall columnists such as Lois Maxwell (Miss Moneypenny), Doug Fisher, Barbara Amiel, William Stevenson (A Man Called Intrepid), and even on occasion Eric Margolis being very erudite and entertaining to read. I may be wrong but I also think they used to publish Allan Fotheringham, so at least it had a sense of humour. Of course, you had your Lubor Zinks, but then you had Heather Mallick, of all people, who used to be the editor of the (surprisingly good) book section of the Sunday Sun. You read that right, the Sun used to have a standalone book section (along with a great funny paper). The paper under the Creighton-Worthington-Hunt years was reliably right-of-centre, but keep in mind right-of-centre in 1991 Canada does not mean what it means today. It did have a snappy, populist punch, but it was never patronizing. It had some good, long-form reportage from time-to-time, excellent crime writing (which on occasion it still does today), and of course its sports section (although, man oh man do I miss Milt Dunnell at the Star). Christie Blatchford also seemed more tolerable back then, but that may be nostalgia, who knows. And the Sunshine girls...more "natural" girls, not the overly inked and pierced stripper try-outs of today. Above all, the paper back then was *entertaining*, not maudlin or craven as it is now (as most media is now, to be frank).

It truly was the paper you saw rolled up in front of the steering wheel of TTC buses, left behind at Tim Hortons, or the paper of choice when you sat down at a bar for a drink. I'm not so sure what it is now, it definitely has a nastier tone than it used to. I think when Quebecor took it over that was when it went off the rails. I'll flip through it if I come across a copy, but I certainly won't go out of my way to get one. The Post, actually, seems to maintain the spirit of the Sun of about 25-30 years ago, albeit with a dash of intellectual pretension thrown in. And fewer girls.

 

[adma]

Thanks for a bit of sense re the Sun's past, fl.

 

[junctionist]

I'll flip through it if I come across a copy, but I certainly won't go out of my way to get one. The Post, actually, seems to maintain the spirit of the Sun of about 25-30 years ago, albeit with a dash of intellectual pretension thrown in. And fewer girls.

That's a good way to sum it up. We need more girls in our newspapers. European tabloid-style papers have topless women, why can't we get that in our tabloid-style newspapers? All newspapers could use more sexy girls. The Globe and Mail might be the worst in this regard. Even though I'm left of centre in my political views, the National Post is a quality paper in general: well-written articles, a mix of viewpoints and top-notch graphic design. Conrad Black is always entertaining, especially when he starts ranting about Quebec. Fortunately he doesn't seem too influential on that topic because if everyone in Canada shared his vitriol, Quebec might separate. In terms of Now, their strength is writing (from a left wing perspective) about issues that might be ignored or marginalized by the mainstream media like cycling, LGBT issues and homelessness.

 

[historydude2012]

The Sun is a strange beast. I've been reading it (and the other Toronto papers) since about 1990, and my memories of the Sun up until perhaps the turn of the last century is of a paper that, yes, is right-wing, but it seems to me it used to be something more. I recall columnists such as Lois Maxwell (Miss Moneypenny), Doug Fisher, Barbara Amiel, William Stevenson (A Man Called Intrepid), and even on occasion Eric Margolis being very erudite and entertaining to read. I may be wrong but I also think they used to publish Allan Fotheringham, so at least it had a sense of humour. Of course, you had your Lubor Zinks, but then you had Heather Mallick, of all people, who used to be the editor of the (surprisingly good) book section of the Sunday Sun. You read that right, the Sun used to have a standalone book section (along with a great funny paper). The paper under the Creighton-Worthington-Hunt years was reliably right-of-centre, but keep in mind right-of-centre in 1991 Canada does not mean what it means today. It did have a snappy, populist punch, but it was never patronizing. It had some good, long-form reportage from time-to-time, excellent crime writing (which on occasion it still does today), and of course its sports section (although, man oh man do I miss Milt Dunnell at the Star). Christie Blatchford also seemed more tolerable back then, but that may be nostalgia, who knows. And the Sunshine girls...more "natural" girls, not the overly inked and pierced stripper try-outs of today. Above all, the paper back then was *entertaining*, not maudlin or craven as it is now (as most media is now, to be frank).

It truly was the paper you saw rolled up in front of the steering wheel of TTC buses, left behind at Tim Hortons, or the paper of choice when you sat down at a bar for a drink. I'm not so sure what it is now, it definitely has a nastier tone than it used to. I think when Quebecor took it over that was when it went off the rails. I'll flip through it if I come across a copy, but I certainly won't go out of my way to get one. The Post, actually, seems to maintain the spirit of the Sun of about 25-30 years ago, albeit with a dash of intellectual pretension thrown in. And fewer girls.

I agree. As long as I've been reading it (mid 90's to present) the Sun has moved towards right-wing populism at the expense of intellectual right-wing writing. But for all I know that could be in response to the creation of the Post in 1998. A need to differentiate itself I guess. I haven't noticed though its nastiness as being greater than what it used to be.

 

[adma]

I agree. As long as I've been reading it (mid 90's to present) the Sun has moved towards right-wing populism at the expense of intellectual right-wing writing. But for all I know that could be in response to the creation of the Post in 1998. A need to differentiate itself I guess. I haven't noticed though its nastiness as being greater than what it used to be.

Well, not just populism, but philistinism--remember fiendish's point about a one-time book section, etc.

And even when it comes to "populism", it ain't what it used to be--I mean, columnists like Paul Rimstead and Gary Dunford were hardly "intellectual" (or "ideological", for that matter) in their approach; yet they were perfect for a Sun-type paper, back when a Sun-type paper wasn't what it is now. (I think you can still feel that spirit through the likes of Jim Slotek.)