407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[Allandale25]

^ Yes, I think that's in the initial BCA @crs1026 and I have referenced. They can have all the plans in the world. Still requires CP's permission. It's their property.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Some may argue Mississauga's already winning because of the upgrades/electrification/GO ownership of the LSW line...(and the Hurontario LRT).

Those people don't understand where people live in Mississauga.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sad about Milton. Looks like we wont get rail service anytime soon. Although I don't see why CP would be against more tracks.

 

[Towered]

^ Yes, I think that's in the initial BCA @crs1026 and I have referenced. They can have all the plans in the world. Still requires CP's permission. It's their property.

Is expropriation an option?

 

[robmausser]

Sad about Milton. Looks like we wont get rail service anytime soon. Although I dont see why CP would be against more tracks.

They arent, but they have to install them, and the last time they overcharged Metrolinx 800%. CP isnt against it, Metrolinx is against paying CP exorbitant amounts of money for tracks.

 

[robmausser]

^ Yes, I think that's in the initial BCA @crs1026 and I have referenced. They can have all the plans in the world. Still requires CP's permission. It's their property.

Not just permission but they have to build the tracks, and charge Metrolinx. They often overcharge ridiculous sums.

 

[crs1026]

Is expropriation an option?

I haven't found a source for whatever study GO did that looked at the Milton line, so I'm speculating here. My suspicion - To get a full separated 2-track ROW for GO inserted alongside the CP mainline, I suspect all sorts of land would have to be acquired along the CP ROW. The amount of land might be minimal, eg maybe as little as 5-10 meters widening to the rail corridor, but the number of properties and the number of discrete negotiations and (worst case) expropriations would be large. The price tag would be significant. Possibly just not manageable.

If you mean can GO expropriate CP, I'd refer you to the ruling that I recently posted where VIA won the right to add train frequency through CP's Smiths Falls interlocking. It's technically possible, but it's not a slam dunk.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ Isn't the "source" what they put forward as options in the Initial BCA?

 

[crs1026]

^Good catch. I was thinking of the earlier study, that is much spoken of but isn't on line anywhere that I can find. @drum118 may be able to comment.

But - the RER BCA pretty much stands as the latest thinking, so it's a good proxy.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ I would just clarify that the Initial RER BCA had a lot more detail - and track maps - than the full GO Expansion BCA.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

They arent, but they have to install them, and the last time they overcharged Metrolinx 800%. CP isnt against it, Metrolinx is against paying CP exorbitant amounts of money for tracks.

Not shocked.

 

[Allandale25]

But I thought some time ago that ML had a agreed-to plan in place to fully build out a two track corridor parallel to CP’s tracks on which it could move GO ops (stations etc), including a crossover/flyover. It was expensive but could feasibly be done.

They may have had a concept plan but not the cash from the Ministry and/or CP approval.

 

[drum118]

There had to be a study done to get the 3rd track plan on the table in early 2000's if the 3rd track was to go to Milton in the end by 2011. Only 2 section of 3 tracks was built, including a 3rd track bridge at Cawthra Rd.

Wynne 2014 election platform call for 4 tracks to Milton with a fly under at Humber River to be completed by 2021/22 at a cost of $2.2(?) billion. GO would use the north side of the corridor and see a few more stations added to the line. There was to be a number of grade separation to take place as well under a different program.

Going beyond Milton is way down the road and would cost more than the upgrading of the existing corridor.

At the end of the day, all rail corridors need to be 4 track to allow CN/CP 2 tracks and GO 2 tracks. In a few place it will be 5/6 tracks.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Do you have a copy of that 3rd track early 2000s study? I don't recall seeing the 4th track/fly under by 2021/22 in the 2014 platform at a cost of $2.2B. I only recall them mentioning GO RER on lines they own.

Here's what I posted when we discussed this in July 2017.

407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

I love the pitiful dollar figure for Milton versus virtually every other line.

urbantoronto.ca

 

[cbrown2009]

I do remember the four track/flyover thing. That’s what I was posting about earlier. It was before the RER only on Metrolinx owned track phase of announcements, when they thought to improve service on all 7 lines. Don’t quite remember if it was full system RER or some sort of steady AD2W pre RER as we came to know it.

Now that I think about it, it may have indeed been a full system RER, then morphed into 30-60 minute AD2W diesel service because of CP’s opposition to catenary going up in their corridor.(?)