407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[steveintoronto]

The provisos are already accumulating on this:

Guelph will see increased GO Train service in 2019
Province announces new weekday morning trip to Toronto, new afternoon trip back to Guelph
NEWS 02:22 PM Guelph Mercury
[...]
At the same news conference, Yurek said the increased service is a step toward two-way, all-day GO Train service on the line.

Following a question from the media, Yurek said he is hoping there would be an announcement on this issue in the next 12 to 18 months.

Earlier this month, Metrolinx unveiled the business case for the transformation of GO Transit train lines in a rapid rail system, which would see trains run every 15 minutes.

However, while that increased service would come to the Kitchener line, Guelph was not included in the plans.

In an email to the Mercury Tribune at the time, Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster said Guelph was not incorporated in that plan as increased service on the Kitchener line falls under a different business case. As well, Verster said ongoing negotiations between Metrolinx with other rail providers put a hurdle in the way.


“The practical reason why these extensions are not included in this GO expansion business case is because these extensions are so dependent on the negotiations with CN and CP as Metrolinx does not fully own the tracks for the planned extensions including the extension to Kitchener,” he says.

“Until these are resolved, we cannot really schedule the completion date or properly determine the final scope of the program.”

https://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/9086873-guelph-will-see-increased-go-train-service-in-2019/

No wonder I'm a cynic. He actually announces a set-back, but puts lipstick on it so people buy it...

 

[TOareaFan]

And Yurek is getting too good at saying the phrase "Two Way All Day" to be backing away from it altogether.

- Paul

He actually speaks outloud today of a 12-18 months time frame to deliver Two Way All Day service (right at the 6:30 mark in the video linked above in 1,094)

 

[Allandale25]

^ Guess we'll just have to wait to see what the quality and extent of further two way all day service looks like.

 

[TOareaFan]

^ Guess we'll just have to wait to see what the quality and extent of further two way all day service looks like.

"further"....there isn't any two way all day service now....so when it happens it won't be further...will it? There is two way part day now....but not all day.

The most disappointing thing about today's announcement is that their new relationship with CN hasn't seen a way to introduce any evening and weekend rail service.

Best thing on a personal level is the change in the westbound 5:50 pm to 6pm departure.....it seems to me I miss that train more often than not when I leave the car behind and this change means that I am less likely to miss it and also the wait if I do miss it is 16% shorter.

 

[Allandale25]

^ There's a basic form of all-day, two-way in my mind but it has a long way to go to increase in frequency, time of day, and days of the week. Phase 1, introductory, first step, whatever you want to call it. Or completely disagree. That's why I commented that it depends on what they'll claim in 12-18 months as being two-way, all-day. I got the sense that the 12-18 month timeframe was the announcement something would happen. Maybe as @ShonTron noted that's when more service will be possible to Bramalea due to the platform being restored? In that case, it would be another form of all-day, two-way but for part of the line.

 

[TOareaFan]

^ There's a basic form of all-day, two-way in my mind but it has a long way to go to increase in frequency, time of day, and days of the week. Phase 1, introductory, first step, whatever you want to call it. Or completely disagree. That's why I commented that it depends on what they'll claim in 12-18 months as being two-way, all-day. I got the sense that the 12-18 month timeframe was the announcement something would happen. Maybe as @ShonTron noted that's when more service will be possible to Bramalea due to the platform being restored? In that case, it would be another form of all-day, two-way but for part of the line.

he specifically says the 12-18 months is for announcement of all day two way for the entire line (ie out to KW)....you are correct, I guess, they could come back in June of 2020 and say "here is your announcement, as promissed, but the service starts in 10 years (hyperbole)"....but that would be weird for this government as the criticism they have received more often in transit file is they announce and go perhaps a bit to fast.....so I am working on the assumption that when they say "announcement in 12 - 18 months" they are planning service introduction in 13 - 19 months.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Indeed - I think we're on the same page. It'll be fascinating to see additional service they are going to be able to create given the well-known complications and logistical challenges.

 

[TOareaFan]

^ Indeed - I think we're on the same page. It'll be fascinating to see additional service they are going to be able to create given the well-known complications and logistical challenges.

Yeah, if they are able to pull off 7 day all day 2 way service without the bypass it kinda means we have been spinning our wheels since the completion of the GTS while being lied to by a government....no?

I have no political axe to grind (not a member of either party and, certainly, not a Doug Ford supporter) but if they are able to pull this off within this one term at a fraction of the cost of the bypass that will raise some interesting questions.

 

[Allandale25]

^ I still wonder if part of making CN bend after all these years is some kind of support for the Milton Logistics Hub/withdrawal of opposition.

The down side even if they got 7 day 2 way peak and off peak enhanced service without the bypass it probably won't be electrified.

Unless a rail grade separation at Mount Pleasant somehow is a bigger break through than I'm considering.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Metrolinx blog post where the organization's brass repeat the claim that no bypass is needed here. I wonder what type of deal they struck with CN.

The new service changes are the result of a stronger working relationship between Metrolinx and CN Rail, which owns part of the 101 kilometres of track between Union Station and Kitchener.

According to Verster, Metrolinx was able to avoid the need for a costly freight by-pass on the Kitchener corridor, allowing for steadily increased service between Toronto and Kitchener until full two-way, all-day service is delivered.

“This service is proof of the great things that can happen when you work collaboratively with your partners,” said Metrolinx, chief planning and development officer, Leslie Woo. “This incremental service expansion is a symbol of our renewed drive to grow mass transit and do things differently.”

This line has showed up in both of the Niagara and Kitchener announcement literature too.

The new service changes are the result of a stronger working relationship between Metrolinx and CN Rail

 

[cbrown2009]

But Phil Verster is on record as of a few months ago claiming that Metrolinx couldn't get the additional track time from CN for more service. Reference to "trying to drive across the neighbours' land and the neighbour simply saying no" or some such. I would be very interested to know what would have changed even so much that Mr. Yurek could openly speak of AD2W trains coming within the next year or two.

 

[steveintoronto]

But Phil Verster is on record as of a few months ago claiming that Metrolinx couldn't get the additional track time from CN for more service. Reference to "trying to drive across the neighbours' land and the neighbour simply saying no" or some such. I would be very interested to know what would have changed even so much that Mr. Yurek could openly speak of AD2W trains coming within the next year or two.

I recollect same, couldn't place it, perhaps at a 'town hall meeting'...all my sixth senses are tingling on this.

Some memories are short. Remember the "Agreement in Principle" and how so many posters were ecstatic and effusive about it? Fool them once...fool them twice...the Cons have been studying the prey to see what bait attracts them.

“More service means more freedom and more relief from congested roadways."

“This is the start of more great things to come for our customers on the Kitchener line.”

It's a Con game, and look how readily it works...

Story by Nitish Bissonauth, Metrolinx media relations and issues specialist.

Gosh, then it must be true! Everyone stand and give a resounding round of applause....

 

[crs1026]

Just to keep one’s eye on the whole package.....

No bypass for CN likely means no shifting CP to the Halton/York corridor...which means no easy solution to better service on the Milton line, and possibly little or no prospect of a mid Toronto transit corridor on the North Toronto line.

I’m not sure that CN would ever have agreed to sharing their corridor with CP - certainly, it would have taken much more than expediting the South Halton terminal to get their agreement to that. So maybe that was never to be.. But I know that some on this forum have argued for that entire package. Even if the Kitchener line improvements start happening, don’t hold your breath for the Milton line to get 2WAD anytime soon.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Just to keep one’s eye on the whole package.....

No bypass for CN likely means no shifting CP to the Halton/York corridor...which means no easy solution to better service on the Milton line, and possibly little or no prospect of a mid Toronto transit corridor on the North Toronto line.

I’m not sure that CN would ever have agreed to sharing their corridor with CP - certainly, it would have taken much more than expediting the South Halton terminal to get their agreement to that. So maybe that was never to be.. But I know that some on this forum have argued for that entire package. Even if the Kitchener line improvements start happening, don’t hold your breath for the Milton line to get 2WAD anytime soon.

- Paul

This. The emphasis that it is not needed for Kitchener line is a communications distraction, no mention that this may kibosh improvements on the Milton line.

 

[steveintoronto]

no mention that this may kibosh improvements on the Milton line.

On aspects of at least half the GO rail network.