407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[gweed123]

Not directly Bypass related but it is a key priority project for CN Rail on the Halton Sub.

Halton launches legal action to gain control over rail project

Improve the Halton Sub to the point where GO can run trains from Aldershot to Bramalea and you have a deal. I'm thinking specifically as part of a future "ring" line (up the Halton Sub, across the York Sub, and then connecting back to the Lakeshore East line at Pickering), having the Halton Sub upgraded could be beneficial. This would also potentially provide Hamilton/Niagara/Burlington with a direct connection to Pearson if such a routing were ever approved.

 

[wopchop]

I hope they win. It's bullshit that they can say they don't need to conform to any municipal or provincial regulations, especially when they are relying on municipal & provincial resources (the roads) to ensure their profit.

 

[muller877]

I hope they win. It's XXXXXXXX that they can say they don't need to conform to any municipal or provincial regulations, especially when they are relying on municipal & provincial resources (the roads) to ensure their profit.

{quote edited to remove language}

Rail traffic (containers) are surging in Canada. Up 7% last year (vs 2%-ish for the US).

I'd rather have a 10,000 foot train double stacked running into Halton then single stacked transport trucks rumbling down the 401. This is <5km away from the 407. Perfect location for short to medium distance deliveries within the GTA.

My theory...the real reason Halton is angry is that they wanted all the property taxes that go along with urban sprawl. The inter-modal yard or another subdivision?

 

[wopchop]

{quote edited to remove language}

Rail traffic (containers) are surging in Canada. Up 7% last year (vs 2%-ish for the US).

I'd rather have a 10,000 foot train double stacked running into Halton then single stacked transport trucks rumbling down the 401. This is <5km away from the 407. Perfect location for short to medium distance deliveries within the GTA.

My theory...the real reason Halton is angry is that they wanted all the property taxes that go along with urban sprawl. The inter-modal yard or another subdivision?

I'm not opposed to rail traffic replacing truck traffic, but that isn't a good enough reason to allow a private for-profit company to ride roughshod over municipal and provincial regulations.

It is also disingenuous to say that all of these trucks will be running down the 407. Yes, they are less than 5km from the 407, but that same 407 also connects to the 401, 403, and numerous other roads.

How many transport trucks do you think use the 407 exclusively instead of regular non-toll roads? I can guarantee you that it is a tiny percentage overall.

 

[gweed123]

My theory...the real reason Halton is angry is that they wanted all the property taxes that go along with urban sprawl. The inter-modal yard or another subdivision?

I don't think it's that so much as it's going to cost Halton quite a bit of money to upgrade the roads around the site that lead to the highways in order to properly support all that truck traffic. Yes, Bronte is now 4 or 5 lanes through much of it, but Tremaine, Lower Baseline, and Britannia are still very much rural cross-sections. That's going to require some serious dough to upgrade to accommodate the truck traffic from here. If this had gone through the normal Site Plan Approval process, the Region would have been able to have gotten CN to pay for a least a part of those upgrades, since their traffic generation would be a large impetus for them.

 

[idc24]

I'm not opposed to rail traffic replacing truck traffic, but that isn't a good enough reason to allow a private for-profit company to ride roughshod over municipal and provincial regulations.

It is also disingenuous to say that all of these trucks will be running down the 407. Yes, they are less than 5km from the 407, but that same 407 also connects to the 401, 403, and numerous other roads.

How many transport trucks do you think use the 407 exclusively instead of regular non-toll roads? I can guarantee you that it is a tiny percentage overall.

I agree with you. It would be almost impossible to restrict cargo truck transport exclusively to a toll highway that contains interchanges every couple of kilometers with regional/municipal roads and all the major 400 series highways.

 

[idc24]

I don't think it's that so much as it's going to cost Halton quite a bit of money to upgrade the roads around the site that lead to the highways in order to properly support all that truck traffic. Yes, Bronte is now 4 or 5 lanes through much of it, but Tremaine, Lower Baseline, and Britannia are still very much rural cross-sections. That's going to require some serious dough to upgrade to accommodate the truck traffic from here. If this had gone through the normal Site Plan Approval process, the Region would have been able to have gotten CN to pay for a least a part of those upgrades, since their traffic generation would be a large impetus for them.

Totally agree!
I've lived in Milton and yes the roads in south Milton are rural in nature and are 2 lane roads with the exception of Bronte and Regional Road 25. Most of the roads around the proposed CN site are owned by the Town of Milton, so having to upgrade all the roads at one period of time will be costly to the Town and potentially highly disruptive to commuters and property owners in the vicinity.

 

[crs1026]

^ If you have driven Tremaine lately, you will have seen that it has already been widened to accommodate the terminal. What hasn't been done yet is the planned new interchange with the 401. I sure hope MTO is holding that close to their chest as it's the most powerful card in the whole CN-Ontario negotiation. As noted, CN will have little interest in using the 407 to deliver containers.

I'm told that Halton wanted the terminal further north, where there is more industrial land zoned....but CN wanted south side of Milton.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I'm told that Halton wanted the terminal further north, where there is more industrial land zoned....but CN wanted south side of Milton.

- Paul

Well that just sounds like sound urban planning...

What would CN's interest in being in south Milton vs. north be?

 

[wopchop]

^ If you have driven Tremaine lately, you will have seen that it has already been widened to accommodate the terminal. What hasn't been done yet is the planned new interchange with the 401. I sure hope MTO is holding that close to their chest as it's the most powerful card in the whole CN-Ontario negotiation. As noted, CN will have little interest in using the 407 to deliver containers.

I'm told that Halton wanted the terminal further north, where there is more industrial land zoned....but CN wanted south side of Milton.

- Paul

Exactly this, it is pretty much guaranteed that the majority of these trucks will be heading up towards either a) the 401 or b) new logistics distribution facilities in North Milton.

 

[wopchop]

Well that just sounds like sound urban planning...

What would CN's interest in being in south Milton vs. north be?

I can't speak to why they bought the land, but they have owned it for a long time. They were first talking about a facility back in 2001. But then the idea went dead about a decade ago, and revived recently (2015, I think).

I know that they looked at a bunch of different locations for the Intermodal, including North Milton, Halton Hills and North Brampton but South Milton was selected by CN as being the preferred site.

It seems possible that land acquisition costs could be a factor against a North Milton location. As I assume the land value would be much higher, as it is zoned industrial and adjacent to the 401 - as opposed to this rural plot they are now proposing.

 

[Dan416]

I do agree that there should be some municipal input into this project, but I can say without hesitation that CN does need this built ASAP. At work we constantly have our intermodal containers from Vancouver delayed getting offloaded at CN Brampton.

 

[crs1026]

I do agree that there should be some municipal input into this project, but I can say without hesitation that CN does need this built ASAP. At work we constantly have our intermodal containers from Vancouver delayed getting offloaded at CN Brampton.

It's a pressing need, no doubt about that. Gee, night and weekend GO service to Mount Pleasant is a pressing need too. So is getting the Bypass built, with CP included. So is service to Niagara. And so is getting the Canadian on time.

So, when GO has an agreement on all that, CN can go ahead with the South Halton terminal. With appropriate environmental mitigations, no cutting corners on airborne dirt, sound, effluent, berms, etc.

CN are masters at hardnosed negotiations. Ontario needs to be likewise.

- Paul

 

[mdrejhon]

Freight Bypass!

Freight Bypass!

Keep eyes on the ball, keep eyes on the ball.

It's almost a Holy Grail "missing link" in eventually solving many rail transport problems in Toronto preventing a truly European-class system gradually. CN and GO benefits. Milton too, eventually! Work things out quickly, whatever needs approved for the whole region's benefit, so the Bypass is not bogged down.

 

[TOareaFan]

So, when GO has an agreement on all that, CN can go ahead with the South Halton terminal. With appropriate environmental mitigations, no cutting corners on airborne dirt, sound, effluent, berms, etc.

CN are masters at hardnosed negotiations. Ontario needs to be likewise.

Ontario is not at the table.....that is the point.....it is a federal matter.