407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[crs1026]

Ontario is not at the table.....that is the point.....it is a federal matter.

Exactly. Ontario and the municipalities need to be working in concert to hold CN's feet to the fire. The litigation is a first step, Ontario can do much to support it:
- no connection for South Halton Intermodal to the Hydro grid, nor to storm and sanitary sewers and Milton water supply, until Ontario's interests are met
- no Tremaine-4o1 interchange until likewise (that penalises Milton in the short term, because the trucks will plod through town.....it's a case of Milton taking one for the team)
- Ontario asserts jurisdiction over environmental regulation of the proposed site (not a bad argument, and one that will send Steve googling for case law)

- Paul

 

[idc24]

This is a recently constructed intermodal railway facility in the outskirts of Columbus Ohio similar to the one being proposed by CN in south Milton.

*This was photo was captured on Google Earth

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I can't speak to why they bought the land, but they have owned it for a long time. They were first talking about a facility back in 2001. But then the idea went dead about a decade ago, and revived recently (2015, I think).

I know that they looked at a bunch of different locations for the Intermodal, including North Milton, Halton Hills and North Brampton but South Milton was selected by CN as being the preferred site.

It seems possible that land acquisition costs could be a factor against a North Milton location. As I assume the land value would be much higher, as it is zoned industrial and adjacent to the 401 - as opposed to this rural plot they are now proposing.

It's a pressing need, no doubt about that. Gee, night and weekend GO service to Mount Pleasant is a pressing need too. So is getting the Bypass built, with CP included. So is service to Niagara. And so is getting the Canadian on time.

So, when GO has an agreement on all that, CN can go ahead with the South Halton terminal. With appropriate environmental mitigations, no cutting corners on airborne dirt, sound, effluent, berms, etc.

CN are masters at hardnosed negotiations. Ontario needs to be likewise.

- Paul

Hmm. The threat of intervention for the South Milton terminal could very well be turned into a bargaining chip for Ontario regarding the bypass, if they wanted to insert themselves into this. They are the overseer of municipal and land use policy.

I also just realized South Milton terminal would work better with the bypass, being on the mainline, so that makes a lot more sense to me now. A North Milton terminal could be a bit more awkward being north of the (re-aligned) mainline.

 

[lenaitch]

Exactly. Ontario and the municipalities need to be working in concert to hold CN's feet to the fire. The litigation is a first step, Ontario can do much to support it:
- no connection for South Halton Intermodal to the Hydro grid, nor to storm and sanitary sewers and Milton water supply, until Ontario's interests are met
- no Tremaine-4o1 interchange until likewise (that penalises Milton in the short term, because the trucks will plod through town.....it's a case of Milton taking one for the team)
- Ontario asserts jurisdiction over environmental regulation of the proposed site (not a bad argument, and one that will send Steve googling for case law)

- Paul

It would make for some interesting court action if public infrastructure - electricity, sewer, water - was withheld solely to achieve another purpose or to block a project. I think that is what BC (or at least one of its municipalities) is threatening against the Trans Mountain pipeline. Now, they could try to very slowly study and plan the services . . .

 

[muller877]

It would make for some interesting court action if public infrastructure - electricity, sewer, water - was withheld solely to achieve another purpose or to block a project. I think that is what BC (or at least one of its municipalities) is threatening against the Trans Mountain pipeline. Now, they could try to very slowly study and plan the services . . .

This is a rural area:.

- no sewers needed (can use a septic system)
- no water needed (can use a well)
- Milton Hydro is suppose to act independently from the city. If not there is low energy requirements anyways (use diesel engines to run the offloading vehicles)
- there is already a road connection at the sight (albeit to a farmers field). So they can't use a curb cut to slow them down
- EA is federal (including all berms, etc)

the only restrictions that the Province/Milton can add are weight restrictions on roads (how to get to Hwy 25?)

Intra-provincial trade is in the federal mandate, not the province. For a reason. They have to look at the good to the country vs the NIMBY politicians in a specific town.

 

[crs1026]

^Some of my suggestions may be impractical (or illegal) but the point remains.... CN has shown no hesitation to take a hardnosed, self-interested, public-be-damned stance on a number of GO-related issues. I would expect all levels of government to counter that with a CN-be-damned stance until they see some reasonableness from CN.... on all the outstanding issues Ontario has with them. Ontario’s lawyers and bureaucratis should be as creative as the situation calls for. It’s a don’t blink first situation.
The old adage applies : only three types of people in the world etc.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

This is a rural area:.

- no sewers needed (can use a septic system)
- no water needed (can use a well)

Both of those require provincial environment ministry approvals.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

I don't have much detailed info about the 407 bypass project but I heard today at work via through the grape vine that the the province had killed off the 407 highway bypass and effectively also killing off the 407 rail bypass which would've gone into the corridor. That's all I heard which is why I'm posting this in case others have heard news of this.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't have much detailed info about the 407 bypass project but I heard today at work via through the grape vine that the the province had killed off the 407 highway bypass and effectively also killing off the 407 rail bypass which would've been gone into the corridor. That's all I heard which is why I'm posting this in case others have heard news of this.

assuming the highway you are referring to is the GTAWest, they are two completely different and distinct projects......not sure how they could be related.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

assuming the highway you are referring to is the GTAWest, they are two completely different and distinct projects......not sure how they could be related.

I too was thinking that it was the GTAWest that was cancelled. Wasn't for sure.

 

[Toronto1834]

Answer to question about CN Freight Rail Bypass at 39:51 in the Metorlinx Town Hall livestream video. Induction study is complete, GO and CN are meeting to review it tomorrow. https://livestream.com/accounts/7089549/events/7965030/videos/170774131

 

[Northern Light]

I don't have much detailed info about the 407 bypass project but I heard today at work via through the grape vine that the the province had killed off the 407 highway bypass and effectively also killing off the 407 rail bypass which would've gone into the corridor. That's all I heard which is why I'm posting this in case others have heard news of this.

In reference to the GTA West; the corridor is being retained (where previously acquired or held under ministerial zoning orders.

The corridor will be narrowed, as the new vision no longer includes a highway. (but may include rail and/or power infrastructure)

From the GTA West page:

To ensure that we are still able to meet the needs of this growing region, the Ministry of Transportation and the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO), with support from the Ministry of Energy, have initiated a joint study to identify a smaller corridor that will be protected for future infrastructure needs, such as utilities, transit or other transportation options developed as part of the ministry’s comprehensive Greater Golden Horseshoe Transportation Plan.

‎As part of the planning study, MTO and the IESO have identified a study area, which will be protected as the study moves forward over the next 9-12 months. This study is not conducted as an environmental assessment, and any infrastructure development in the area would require the completion of an applicable environmental assessment.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

In reference to the GTA West; the corridor is being retained (where previously acquired or held under ministerial zoning orders.

The corridor will be narrowed, as the new vision no longer includes a highway. (but may include rail and/or power infrastructure)

From the GTA West page:

To ensure that we are still able to meet the needs of this growing region, the Ministry of Transportation and the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO), with support from the Ministry of Energy, have initiated a joint study to identify a smaller corridor that will be protected for future infrastructure needs, such as utilities, transit or other transportation options developed as part of the ministry’s comprehensive Greater Golden Horseshoe Transportation Plan.

‎As part of the planning study, MTO and the IESO have identified a study area, which will be protected as the study moves forward over the next 9-12 months. This study is not conducted as an environmental assessment, and any infrastructure development in the area would require the completion of an applicable environmental assessment.

This is the GTA West corridor:

Methinks there could be a potential move by the province to make the Missing Link (407ish corridor) CN and any commuter purposes only, and GTA West as a CP bypass. That corridor would provide a quick and nifty connection to the MacTier sub and their Klienburg Terminal.

 

[gweed123]

Methinks there could be a potential move by the province to make the Missing Link (407ish corridor) CN and any commuter purposes only, and GTA West as a CP bypass. That corridor would provide a quick and nifty connection to the MacTier sub and their Klienburg Terminal.

Interesting thought, though there would also be a need for a ROW east of the 400 as well, in order to connect to their existing line north of Markham.

 

[Leo_Chan]

This is the GTA West corridor:

Methinks there could be a potential move by the province to make the Missing Link (407ish corridor) CN and any commuter purposes only, and GTA West as a CP bypass. That corridor would provide a quick and nifty connection to the MacTier sub and their Klienburg Terminal.

So we're skipping the Midtown and Uptown corridors for a Skytown Passenger Corridor?

Interesting thought, though there would also be a need for a ROW east of the 400 as well, in order to connect to their existing line north of Markham.

Would this the connection allow for trains to go from the Barrie Line to Richmond Hill Line? That's a good thing right?