2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[ADRM]

But quite a few of their actions stink to high heaven.

Which ones?

 

[picard102]

They may have weaseled their way out of any charges, or threw lower level employees under the bus on occasion.

But quite a few of their actions stink to high heaven.

Wynne was supposed to be an improvement on this front but it still feels like more of the same and they haven't learned their lesson.

So your answer is you cannot.
Therefore your assertion that they are corrupt has no basis, and is either a lie meant to fool others, or a ideological belief based on little more than personal bias.

 

[narduch]

So your answer is you cannot.
Therefore your assertion that they are corrupt has no basis, and is either a lie meant to fool others, or a ideological belief based on little more than personal bias.

Ok.

This is just deflection.

I've voted Liberal all my life. This has nothing to do with Ideology.

I do find it funny with the Liberal fart-catchers come to the thread to defend them though.

 

[narduch]

Which ones?

The sale of Hydro One is a perfect example.

I'm sure you will brush that off though, considering you are a major apologist for them.

 

[Palma]

So your answer is you cannot.
Therefore your assertion that they are corrupt has no basis, and is either a lie meant to fool others, or a ideological belief based on little more than personal bias.

You must be a liberal. How anyone can believe the liberals are not corrupt. Orge -scandals, gas plant, email deletions and then one of the parties gets a job in another province again in gov't. Sandels, Mathews and more. Just these 2 politicians alone the Liberals should loose. And THEY WILL LOOSE. The day to day stuff. Signing early contract extensions with these various unions so that contracts do not end during election is another prime example of corruption.

 

[ADRM]

The sale of Hydro One is a perfect example.

I'm sure you will brush that off though, considering you are a major apologist for them.

How is the sale of Hydro One a perfect example? If you disagree conceptually with partly divesting ownership of public assets, then have that debate -- it's a world different than intimating that some sort of corruption is the "real reason" behind the decision.

So often, as you have just done, the Wynne haters on this forum make claims that have become popularized by the Sun et al but don't actually have any particular grounding in logic or intellectual argument.

It's not an exercise in holding power to account and it's not a display of astute critical thinking; it's simply an illustration of slavish belief in the dumbest, lowest common denominator form of mainstream media we have.

If you have a real argument that you can advance without resorting to regurgitating cheap headlines, then do that. If you can't do that, there's no reason to engage in discussion with you at all. Make an intellectual, fact-based argument so we can have a good discussion on here or sit down.

 

[ADRM]

You must be a liberal. How anyone can believe the liberals are not corrupt. Orge -scandals, gas plant, email deletions and then one of the parties gets a job in another province again in gov't. Sandels, Mathews and more. Just these 2 politicians alone the Liberals should loose. And THEY WILL LOOSE. The day to day stuff. Signing early contract extensions with these various unions so that contracts do not end during election is another prime example of corruption.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Gas plants: two former Liberal staffers are alleged to have illegally deleted emails. Two staffers. That is the extent of the scandal. You've also presented "gas plant" and "email deletions" as two separate claims, when they are in fact the same thing.

"Signing early contract extensions with these various unions so that contracts do not end during election is another prime example of corruption": This is the definition of a baseless assertion. There isn't a shred of evidence to support your claim, you seem not to understand how either collective bargaining or broadly inflation-pegged pay increases work.

Ornge: Let me give you a chance here: can you actually describe the malfeasance you're accusing a sitting member of the Liberal government of having committed?

 

[picard102]

I do find it funny with the Liberal fart-catchers come to the thread to defend them though.

Are you also 9 years old? You posted unsubstantiated horse shit, and when you get called out you call people fart catchers. Grow up.

You must be a liberal. How anyone can believe the liberals are not corrupt. Orge -scandals, gas plant, email deletions and then one of the parties gets a job in another province again in gov't. Sandels, Mathews and more. Just these 2 politicians alone the Liberals should loose. And THEY WILL LOOSE. The day to day stuff. Signing early contract extensions with these various unions so that contracts do not end during election is another prime example of corruption.

You can spew all sorts of garbage all day long to deflect from the fact that saying they are corrupt, is nothing more than campaign rhetoric emboldened by Trump style politics.

 

[narduch]

How is the sale of Hydro One a perfect example? If you disagree conceptually with partly divesting ownership of public assets, then have that debate -- it's a world different than intimating that some sort of corruption is the "real reason" behind the decision.

So often, as you have just done, the Wynne haters on this forum make claims that have become popularized by the Sun et al but don't actually have any particular grounding in logic or intellectual argument.

It's not an exercise in holding power to account and it's not a display of astute critical thinking; it's simply an illustration of slavish belief in the dumbest, lowest common denominator form of mainstream media we have.

If you have a real argument that you can advance without resorting to regurgitating cheap headlines, then do that. If you can't do that, there's no reason to engage in discussion with you at all. Make an intellectual, fact-based argument so we can have a good discussion on here or sit down.

I really don't have time to properly argue this.

But the sale of Hydro One smells.

This isn't Sun headlines. I don't even read that rag and have no idea what they talk about.

The sale of Hydro One is bad for Ontario in the long run (financially). It was pure cronyism. And the bankers that benefitted from it all turned around and donated lots of money to the Liberals.

The entire plan actually makes no sense for the people of Ontario.

But continue to defend the indefensible.

 

[ADRM]

I really don't have time to properly argue this.

But the sale of Hydro One smells.

This isn't Sun headlines. I don't even read that rag and have no idea what they talk about.

The sale of Hydro One is bad for Ontario in the long run (financially). It was pure cronyism. And the bankers that benefitted from it all turned around and donated lots of money to the Liberals.

The entire plan actually makes no sense for the people of Ontario.

But continue to defend the indefensible.

This post is literally the perfect proof of my two previous posts. You can't muster an intellectual defense of a single one of your positions.

Instead, we get "it smells."

Your smell test is utterly unmoving.

 

[narduch]

This post is literally the perfect proof of my two previous posts. You can't muster an intellectual defense of a single one of your positions.

Instead, we get "it smells."

Your smell test is utterly unmoving.

That's only because you completely disregard the points against your stance.

The sale is financially bad for Ontario in the long run and will actually cause Energy bills to go up.

The government's own agencies study the plan and said it was a bad idea. But Wynn pushed it through. Why is that?

But please, keep saying I'm not being 'intellectual'

You are full of shit and will just defend the Liberals no matter what. That's the bottom line.

 

[ADRM]

That's only because you completely disregard the points against your stance.

The sale is financially bad for Ontario in the long run and will actually cause Energy bills to go up.

The government's own agencies study the plan and said it was a bad idea. But Wynn pushed it through. Why is that?

But please, keep saying I'm not being 'intellectual'

You are full of shit and will just defend the Liberals no matter what. That's the bottom line.

You're making this really much too easy. Here we go again:

"The sale is financially bad for Ontario in the long run and will actually cause Energy bills to go up": Point us to the independent analysis that proves your assertion.

"The government's own agencies study the plan and said it was a bad idea. But Wynn pushed it through. Why is that?": Let me get this straight -- the jump you're making is from "I can't figure out this decision" to "the only logical answer is corruption"? A great general rule of thumb in life is to not accuse people of corruption just because you can't think of or refuse to believe any alternative reasoning.

"But please, keep saying I'm not being 'intellectual'": Happy to! Put up a logical, fact-based argument to a single one of your assertions, I dare you.

"You are full of shit and will just defend the Liberals no matter what. That's the bottom line." Wrong again! I've been critical of government decisions I've disagreed with, and that's a plain and, for you, unfortunate fact. If you can't understand the notion that it's possible to disagree with someone on some issues and agree with them on others, then I really cannot help you.

You can call people full of shit all you want; it's really no skin off of my back (though it probably does run afoul of the forum's code of conduct). If I cared about what low-information, Trump voter-esque people said about people like me, every day would be very long and frustrating indeed.

 

[picard102]

That's only because you completely disregard the points against your stance.

That would be true, if you offered any factual points to disregard.

 

[Palma]

Look at how desparate the Liberals are to hold on power. Energy costs have continuosly gone up. Now 12 months before an election (or who knows an early election), they first scrap provincial portion of HST on hydro bills, then when polls still show no upswing, hydro bills are cut by 25%. Since the polls show these measures are not helping the Liberals in the polls they go after a social agenda - minimum wage going up to $15.00, 23% in 6 months (the Liberals say going up slowly), mandatory 3 weeks vacation aftr 5 years of service, 10 personal days off per year mandatory. Never mind continusly re-announcing the same plans for RER over and over making them sound all new announcements, all the issues when they were bargaining with the teachers union (paying for food / hotel with no receipts from union heads), comments from sandles and Mathews. Pan AM games cost - they say they came in on time and on budget but when you continuosly move the time frame and increase budget of course they will - paying executive on PAN Games board bonuses for completing the infrastructure on time and within budget - what a joke. We can;t forget after they allowed Tory to think they would approve tolls, they pulled a 180 and refused (all because MPP worried they would not win their seats in vaughan

 

[ADRM]

Look at how desparate the Liberals are to hold on power. Energy costs have continuosly gone up. Now 12 months before an election (or who knows an early election), they first scrap provincial portion of HST on hydro bills, then when polls still show no upswing, hydro bills are cut by 25%. Since the polls show these measures are not helping the Liberals in the polls they go after a social agenda - minimum wage going up to $15.00, 23% in 6 months (the Liberals say going up slowly), mandatory 3 weeks vacation aftr 5 years of service, 10 personal days off per year mandatory. Never mind continusly re-announcing the same plans for RER over and over making them sound all new announcements, all the issues when they were bargaining with the teachers union (paying for food / hotel with no receipts from union heads), comments from sandles and Mathews. Pan AM games cost - they say they came in on time and on budget but when you continuosly move the time frame and increase budget of course they will - paying executive on PAN Games board bonuses for completing the infrastructure on time and within budget - what a joke. We can;t forget after they allowed Tory to think they would approve tolls, they pulled a 180 and refused (all because MPP worried they would not win their seats in vaughan

Point being...