News   Jul 12, 2024
199 Church Showcases Heritage Facade and Artwork at Street Level
 726     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Six Points Plaza Redevelopment Advances With 36-Storey First Phase
 669     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Trading Spaces: Can Real Estate Conversion Help Boost Housing Supply?
 297     0 

2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

ADRM said:
If you're not capable of expressing displeasure with a particular policy or decision without resorting to baseless allegations of criminal conduct, then you don't have much capacity for thoughtful argument.
Click to expand...


The definition of being corrupt is: If someone or something is corrupt, they’re broken morally or in some other way. Corrupt people perform immoral or illegal acts for personal gain.

As a I said before, a person can be corrupt but not in a illegal manner, I am certain a person of your intelligence understands morality of a person is not based on the law alone.

You have heard the term of someone of being morally bankrupt? It still could mean that person can still be fine from a legal point of view...

It is not a baseless allegation, because you're saying the liberals are not 'legally corrupt', and they are not...

They are morally corrupt which is not illegal and frankly I think I am more then capable of a thoughtful argument, as you are as well. Unlike yourself, I dont think by holding a certain politically viewpoint I am automatically superior to others who dont share my viewpoints.
 
Jasmine18 said:
Unlike yourself, I dont think by holding a certain politically viewpoint I am automatically superior to others who dont share my viewpoints.
Click to expand...

That's not remotely what I was suggesting.

Further, you're taking it for granted that people generally agree with your assertion that accusing someone of corruption doesn't intimate that they're partaking in an explicitly illegal activity, and I think that's crazy.
 
ADRM said:
That's not remotely what I was suggesting.

Further, you're taking it for granted that people generally agree with your assertion that accusing someone of corruption doesn't intimate that they're partaking in an explicitly illegal activity, and I think that's crazy.
Click to expand...


But your implying that the liberals did not engage in criminal behaviour and a result you cant call them corrupt...

Which is just doublespeak...
 
It looks like the Liberal spending from teh past few months have not helped their cause. It seems no matter how much they try to change the channel, the public is not going to trust this morally, ethically, financially (but not yet legally) corrupt party. Latest numbers are:
PC = 44%
NDP = 24%
Lib = 23%
That translates to 9 seats.
I don't think Wynne has a chance, but she may be able to absorb all the Liberal corruption onto herself and let another leader give it a try. I may just win the Liberals the City of Toronto and possibly hold the PC's to a minority. But the reality is, no party deserves to loose bad more than this generation of Liberals.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2756/ontario-horserace-june-2017/
 
BurlOak said:
It looks like the Liberal spending from teh past few months have not helped their cause. It seems no matter how much they try to change the channel, the public is not going to trust this morally, ethically, financially (but not yet legally) corrupt party. Latest numbers are:
PC = 44%
NDP = 24%
Lib = 23%
That translates to 9 seats.
I don't think Wynne has a chance, but she may be able to absorb all the Liberal corruption onto herself and let another leader give it a try. I may just win the Liberals the City of Toronto and possibly hold the PC's to a minority. But the reality is, no party deserves to loose bad more than this generation of Liberals.

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2756/ontario-horserace-june-2017/
Click to expand...

Yikes. I can't see the Liberals dropping to single digits in seat count. Heck, even the post-Rae NDP had a seat count in the high teens.
 
Jasmine18 said:
But your implying that the liberals did not engage in criminal behaviour and a result you cant call them corrupt...

Which is just doublespeak...
Click to expand...

It's just not "doublespeak." My interpretation of political corruption includes criminality as a necessary component for that term to fit, and I think that's an important rubicon.

If a rail company secretly gave $800K to a minister personally and then the minister turned around and awarded a contract to said company, that's corruption. If a political party chose a policy because it was political advantageous, that's not corruption -- that, unfortunate as it, is politics. And the latter, as a previous poster pointed out, crosses ideological and party lines.

And, yes, I'm implying that the current governing party in Ontario didn't engage in criminal behaviour because they didn't, which is a fairly important detail.
 
ADRM said:
It's just not "doublespeak." My interpretation of political corruption includes criminality as a necessary component for that term to fit, and I think that's an important rubicon.

If a rail company secretly gave $800K to a minister personally and then the minister turned around and awarded a contract to said company, that's corruption. If a political party chose a policy because it was political advantageous, that's not corruption -- that, unfortunate as it, is politics. And the latter, as a previous poster pointed out, crosses ideological and party lines.

And, yes, I'm implying that the current governing party in Ontario didn't engage in criminal behaviour because they didn't, which is a fairly important detail.
Click to expand...
What happens if that rail company buys an old item from the ministers garage sale for $800k and the minister awards a contract. Is that corruption?
 
The question is whether Patrick Brown will say anything offensive to loose the election. It's his to loose. Right now he's being treated with kid gloves. He doesn't have a platform yet. Once it's released than we shall see. I also see Horwath always polls high but come voting day, she fumbles. Both Wynne and Horwath are tired brands for their parties. If PC's win, it will be a chance for the left to re-brand and get their act together.

Ontario hasn't been governed by a right wing party since 2003. I'm curious if Brown will introduce any controversial policies or will be cautious and offer a strategic tax cut to buy voters. He doesn't need to do much to keep his polling numbers going.
 
ADRM said:
It's just not "doublespeak." My interpretation of political corruption includes criminality as a necessary component for that term to fit, and I think that's an important rubicon.
Click to expand...

So if a politician changed government law to make voting for anybody but them illegal (which a majority government can do using the not withstanding clause to override any and every prior law/right), then enforced that law, you would NOT find that to be corrupt? The criminal, now, would be the leader of the opposition voting for themselves instead of the named politician in the law.

The challenge with requiring a criminal component is that this is the group that declares something criminal or not.

Clearly I chose an extreme example (though with Erdogan taking over Turkey, is it really that extreme?). I generally agree that current law in Canada covers nearly everything I would consider to be political corruption. My only intent was to point out that laws are fluid and a truly corrupt government wouldn't break any laws; they'd change them first.
 
Last edited:
rbt said:
So if a politician changed government law to make voting for anybody but them illegal (which a majority government can do using the not withstanding clause to override any and every prior law/right), then enforced that law, you would NOT find that to be corrupt?
Click to expand...

Do you really need me to answer that question?

The fact that we went from Kathleen Wynne to Recep Erdogan is kind of perfectly emblematic of how insane, vitriolic, and divorced from reality much of the common criticism of Wynne has become.
 
ADRM said:
The fact that we went from Kathleen Wynne to Recep Erdogan is kind of perfectly emblematic of how insane, vitriolic, and divorced from reality much of the common criticism of Wynne has become.
Click to expand...

Nice redirection. Do you have experience in public relations?

My statement had to do with your questionable definition of "corruption"; specifically the blanket statement that they had to break the law. In fact, I explained as much in my post that you quoted.
 
rbt said:
Nice redirection.

My statement had to do with your questionable definition of "corruption"; specifically the blanket statement that they had to break the law. In fact, I explained as much in my post that you quoted.
Click to expand...

You brought up a Turkish dictator in an Ontario politics discussion and are accusing me of redirecting.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top